Added logs for the dev and Kovri meeting held on 2016-09-11

parent ed72b69b
---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2016-09-11
summary: Brief review of what has been completed since last meeting, Kovri Logo, code & open tickets discussion
tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto]**
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*September 11th, 2016*
# Logs
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: all yours :)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 1. Community input for kovri logo https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/create-beautiful-logo-kovri-privacy-enhancing-open-source-652257/entries
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 2. Greetings
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 3. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 4. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Everyone quick, before you leave, give your opinion on the logo!
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony: I think we narrowed it down to #239 and #146
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Maybe others are of interest?
**\<MalMen>** well, I am checking the bitcoin rcp and they use wordwordword, I think i like word_word_word better
**\<fluffypony>** https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/create-beautiful-logo-kovri-privacy-enhancing-open-source-652257/entries/146
**\<fluffypony>** https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/create-beautiful-logo-kovri-privacy-enhancing-open-source-652257/entries/239
**\<hyc>** the onion/garlic thing ... I guess it's descriptive, but I can't take it seriously
**\<lurker>** 146
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: it's coz of Garlic Routing
**\<Elli0t>** 88
**\<MalMen>** for example "getthis" would bedificuld to understund with no "get_this", but i like "getThis" too, I think I got that from javascript
**\<hyc>** yes, I see that, but ...
**\<fluffypony>** MalMen: can you take it to PM with tewinget, or wait till after the Kovri meeting?
**\<tewinget>** MalMen: if you want to discuss that, PM me, otherwise try to wait until the Kovri meeting concludes.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** MalMen, we are in the kovri meeting. Please wait for monero chat until afterward.
**\<tewinget>** dammit fluffypony
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<MalMen>** lo
**\<MalMen>** please continue :D
**\<hyc>** I think the stylized Ks are more preofessional
**\<Kermit_>** As a designer 146 it also brand recognition with xmr
**\<fluffypony>** #146 is more in the spirit of the Monero logo, I'll definitely agree with that
**\<fluffypony>** and yeah, the brand recognition aspect is +1
**\<i2p-relay> {-guzzi}** #239
**\<tooquick_4u>** #146
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** I kinda like https://images-contests.99static.com/wYofliD7HjSVmkBoYhGS4CyMeNc=/188x0:1464x1276/500x500/top/smart/99designs-contests-attachments/75/75384/attachment_75384769, the variants of https://images-contests.99static.com/Gs4VClupDwKJEGKvaX7I40TLckg=/0x0:1156x1156/500x500/top/smart/99designs-contests-
**\<meeting-bot> attachments/75/75381/attachment_75381142
**\<tewinget>** wait, isn't 99designs basically spec-work?
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-ArticMine}** Kovri logo Do we want a variant of the Monero logo or something entirely different?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** But why get washed in with more corporatism? We're at a juncture to break some molds here.
**\<fluffypony>** tewinget: yes
**\<tewinget>** eww
**\<DaveyJones>** on the other hand 239 is catchy... ppl may recognize that... while 146 goes in and goes out of mind
**\* fluffypony** ponders
**\<tewinget>** that said, 146 is nice.
**\<hyc>** I kinda like 254 / 253 but they're so abstract I dunno what they represent
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: I don't think it's "corporate" per se
**\<fluffypony>** "professional" sure
**\<blackink>** my vote is 236
**\<blackink>** i mean 239
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** moneromooo: can you tiny that url? weechat sucks
**\<hyc>** 239 - ok, that's still understated, I could respect that
**\<fluffypony>** my concern is that if we're too playful it eventually ends up like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Itoopie.svg/2000px-Itoopie.svg.png
**\<fluffypony>** :-P
**\<pero>** i like the font squarepoint is using
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** hyc: 254/253, the person was probably drinking pepsi at the time.
**\<pero>** in 25x and 99
**\<tewinget>** 24{7,8} aren't half bad.
**\<hyc>** lol. 219 has that Monero tie-in with the garlic
**\<pero>** i like #239 but the kerning is awful from a typography perspective
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** why the halloween colors anyway?
**\<fluffypony>** bear in mind, too, that we can change it later on
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** anonimal: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/426683/14736136/
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** moneromooo: thanks
**\<fluffypony>** guzzi: the orange? coz of the Monero logo's colours, I'd guess
**\<ferretinjapan>** 246 is a nice mix of both 146 and 239 imo
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony: how much *can* we change after we pick one?
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: we can always pay them more to make more changes
**\<fluffypony>** we also made changes to the Monero logo after delivery
**\<fluffypony>** to fix the kerning
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** got it
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** Not sure what numbers these map to, no numbers in the URLs
**\<dEBRUYNE>** I like 239 btw
**\<nioc>** if between 239 and 146 then 239
**\<pero>** wouldnt logo selection work better (more efficiently) by filtering out the ones no one likes
**\<dEBRUYNE>** moneromooo: your first link is #239
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** moneromooo: the garlic one was top choice #239, the other one I don't know
**\<pero>** and then having an in depth look at a smaller selection
**\<fluffypony>** pero: no this is much more fun, the entire dev meeting will be "but I like this logo" :-P
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** THanks :)
**\<hyc>** in that 223 series, is that a Tau, for Tor?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** moneromooo: I like the mask idea but the artist took the easy way out and just plastered it next to text.
**\<MalMen>** between 146 and 239 for me
**\<hyc>** 236-237 I have to exclude, there's a Circle-K convenience store chain in California that looks like that
**\<ferretinjapan>** why not make it 146 and just go a different color, it would still feel monero-ish
**\<Flyfree10>** is this where the meeting for Monero is?
**\<MalMen>** 239 is nice because it bring the "onion" that is easly recognised by tor users
**\<lurker>** i think keep it simple whilst linking to monero and its a winner 239 is good but if at anypoint the logo is just to be used it is not always instantly recognisable whereas the 146 is
**\<moneromooo>** Flyfree10: finished
**\<Flyfree10>** how did it go?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** hyc: re: tau, that's a bold stretch, I think only you and a few others would have pointed that out
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** e.g., artist probably wasn't thinking on that level
**\<moneromooo>** Hmm. Wordy I guess. There will be logs from dEBRUYNE, most likely.
**\<hyc>** I'm gonna go with 239
**\<tewinget>** Flyfree10: Kovri meeting in-progress, wait a bit and Monero dev meeting minutes will be on reddit I'm sure.
**\<hyc>** if you think the typography needs to be touched up, cool, but overall it looks classy and it still has the garlic without being over the top
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Alright, I'm seeing a lot of #239 (also my top pick)
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** People are going to be confused between garlic/onion, I'm sure.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** They should be, they are very similar in terms of routing
**\<fluffypony>** they are, moneromooo, but I don't think they'll be confused enough to care
**\<fluffypony>** it's not like people make privacy decisions based on routing models :-P
**\<ferretinjapan>** yeah i think the garlic just looks confusing.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** So should we do a vote of "anything *not* 239"?
**\<hyc>** yeah. it's close enough. several of the others leave me wondering WTH they are.
**\<_Slack> <xmr_eric>** The one option I'm not seeing is a direct copy of the Monero (M). I did a quick mockup: https://i.imgur.com/8wIh8Hb.png
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Strong opinions on *not* 239?
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** Well... "I use kovri, that's a privacy program for that onion type thing"
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** How can we improve #239?
**\<fluffypony>** otoh I don't think I've ever heard a non-technical person talk about onion routing, moneromooo
**\<medusa_>** personally i also like 245, the green symbols strong roots
**\<pero>** 239 needs a different font and some kerning
**\<MalMen>** we can allways tell "we use garlic instead of union to keep vampires away from the network"
**\<fluffypony>** xmr_eric: there were a bunch of those, like hundreds of them, we rejected them in favour of #239
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-ArticMine}** 239 Possible confusion with Tor. Could be dicey from a trademark perspective
**\<_Slack> <xmr_eric>** cool
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** #239 looks nice
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Don't think there would be trademark issues
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** medusa_ I like the logo but not so much the colour.
**\<pero>** if you took the word kovri from 254 and stuck it into 239 it would look significantly better
**\<fluffypony>** ArticMine: I don't know if there's much risk there, since they're just terms that describe the routing (and Tor don't own a trademark on the routing term afaik)
**\<fluffypony>** definitely if we were claiming something like that in text
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** pero: good point
**\<MalMen>** anonimal at the begining I didnt like the colors of monero too, but grown on me
**\<hyc>** yeh that's why I don't like 246. the tuft at the top of the logo reminds me too much of the tor onion
**\<ferretinjapan>** 239 isnt horrible, but it definitely doesn't feel like it has a connection to Monero
**\<ferretinjapan>** other than the color, it doesn't really feel like it's closely bound to the Monero project.
**\<lurker>** agree ferretinjapan
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-ArticMine}** There are common law trademarks by "use in commerce" in both cases
**\<ferretinjapan>** If that's intentional then awesome, but otherwise, people may not even connect monero and kovri together as being sister projects.
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-moneromooo}** Then... we could superimpose: 239 with added arms on top of the monero M, trying to hide it :D
**\<pero>** i think my the minimal pacmans from 88 and 81 arent bad either
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: what are your thoughts on the "connection to Monero" thing - do we want it to be more tightly coupled or not?
**\<hyc>** then xmr_eric's would be fine
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony ferretinjapan lurker: if the artists can somehow come up with a better idea other than slapping a big K in the style of monero onto the garlic, then I'm open to new ideas
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** fluffypony i agree if there needs to be aconnection to monero that is important to discussion on 239
**\<hyc>** or at least a starting point. maybe turn the circle background into the garlic
**\<pero>** 139 and 138 too
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** anonimal, aggreed on the K statement.
**\<pero>** 138 is a more subtle variant of 239
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Realistically, at kovri's future apex, it will still be an independent router; so I'm not sure why there's so much concern about "connection"
**\<hyc>** hm, yeah, so subtle I didn't notice it before ;)
**\<ferretinjapan>** a fusing of the two whould be nice
**\* tewinget** (tentatively) casts his vote for 247, or some iteration upon it.
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: I guess because it's like Apache projects, that all fold into the Apache structure / governance etc.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** the color by itself should be a sufficient connection
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** #247 looks so terribly awkward
**\<ferretinjapan>** that's why I liked #246, but maybe it's a bit too plain
**\<hyc>** 138 reminds me more of saturn's rings than a garlic
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** #246: the flaming egg
**\<hyc>** I'm still going with 239, final answer.
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<ferretinjapan>** or the tennisball with fuzz on top :)
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-ArticMine}** Possibly 251 No onion / garlic
**\<MalMen>** well, If it was to be something completly distinct from monero I would vote 249
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Let's decide on 1 and see how we can improve it.
**\<tewinget>** I think maybe since there are so many opinions we shelf this for now, make a shortlist of 10 or so, and discuss among just those at a later time.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I'm voting #239
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi] we ef have two camps here. use a letter like Monero logo or -- somethinge else00
**\<fluffypony>** we have 8 days to make a decision, tewinget
**\<hyc>** shrink them down to 16x16 favicons, most of them will look like garbage
**\<fluffypony>** tbh I kinda like #239 too
**\<fluffypony>** and I think the colour is indeed enough of a connection
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** #239 should do
**\<tewinget>** fluffypony: that later time could be an hour from now, I just figured maybe get to the rest of the Kovri meeting, then circle back.
**\<fluffypony>** also we can ALWAYS change it later
**\<pero>** hyc except for 135 and 134
**\<fluffypony>** not like we have a branding department to report to
**\<pero>** i think tus_99 definitely has the best handle on the design
**\<hyc>** ok, 135 isn't bad.
**\<pero>** and squarepoint the best typography
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: as the CEO of Kovri (kidding) you get to decide, I think you've heard enough opinions, and we'll defer to you
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony: thank you
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** #239 it is *but* we should work out font and see if artist can improve the idea.
**\<fluffypony>** absolutely
**\<fluffypony>** I'll finalise the 99designs competition in the next couple of days, and give the artist final direction
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Who here had thoughts about kerning, etc.?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** (backlog too big to read)
**\<pero>** that was i
**\<fluffypony>** pero did
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** pero could you give specifics so fluffypony can relay to artist?
**\<pero>** sure i'll pm him something in a little bit
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Thanks pero
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony: will we ever have a one-on-one with tus_99?
**\<fluffypony>** I don't think so
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** As in, ever speak directly with him?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Oh
**\<fluffypony>** I think we send him direction and then he's like "ok here" and that's it
**\<fluffypony>** but we will have the source
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Odd world we live in.
**\<fluffypony>** and we can modify it from there
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok great
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** So, resolved with #239?
**\<meeting-bot> [i2p-relay] {-ArticMine} I have to leave now
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Thanks ArticMine
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** anonimal: Yes, let's move on
**\<fluffypony>** indeed
**\<fluffypony>** rubber stamp of approval and all that
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Sold, to #239!
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Alright next
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 2. Greetings
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 3. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Hi
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** (lol)
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Hi
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** hi
**\<fluffypony>** EinMByte thanks for taking the time to join the meeting, I know you're busy
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** git log --pretty=oneline --since=2weeks --no-merges | wc -l
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 30
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Fixes, features, improvements.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Highlights include:
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** - The infamous transports "5 - 6 = 18446744073709551615" diffie-hellman keypair supplier bug, now fixed
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** - AddressBook fixes/enhancements
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** - HTTP fixes/enhancements
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** - Clearnet / in-net download impl
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** - Coverity resolutions
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** - More in log
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Please pipe-in if I missed something we should note
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Oh yes, more NTCP fixes thanks to EinMByte
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** And more on the way (not yet merged)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Anything else on 3.?
**\<fluffypony>** i'd like to point out that the Kovri instance that runs i2p-relay
**\<fluffypony>** no longer suffers from memory leaks (although they were only occasional before)
**\<fluffypony>** thank you for fixing :)
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** There's a few more leaks that need fixing
**\<fluffypony>** (that server has 128gb of RAM, so a memory leak is kinda humorous)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Hard to pin down. One would think they would have checked that 5 - 6 != 0
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** s/they/the mathematical magician/
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** fluffypony: Please tell us when you see inbound NTCP happening :)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** EinMByte that'll probably never happen until we fix it, lol
**\<fluffypony>** will do lol
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** If we even need to fix it
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Something needs fixed somewhere
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Probably, yes
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 4. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** So latest hot topic was release planning for 33C3
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Is that done? Wiki still looks empty
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I'd rather not repeat the tons of work EinMByte and I have done this week. If anyone is interested they can start idling #kovri-dev
**\<fluffypony>** whoop whoop
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** No, wiki not done
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I've sorted out open issues,
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** will open a few more directly related to first release,
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** will do more roadmap work once release cycle is codified,
**\<fluffypony>** and now that we're closer to logo I can get back on the website / email bandwagon
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** we sill need a solid answer on CI
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: which CI question?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Mr. build bot, the devops guy who was supposed to be at the monero meeting today
**\<pigeons>** hello
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Maybe I missed the discussion, I don't know
**\<DaveyJones>** pigeons it is :D
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Hi pigeons
**\<fluffypony>** oh
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal sorry, it was at the beginning of the Monero meeting
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** My fault then, I came in late
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** When are we throwing out travis?
**\<pigeons>** Hi. Im just getting everything started, but feel free to chat with me anytime and ill show you what were doing and yuo can tellme about the needs
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: we'll probably break the chassis on Monero first
**\<fluffypony>** and setup IRC hooks etc.
**\<fluffypony>** and then adding Kovri will be a snap
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Awesome and awesome, thanks pigeons and fluffypony
**\<pigeons>** luckiy buildbot irc hooks are vey automactice and easy
**\<fluffypony>** hashtag excite
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok great, so we'll keep in touch then overtime.
**\<pigeons>** cool.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Next issue, fluffypony did you want me to bring-up/add something to the agenda?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony: was it for website or email or both?
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: both
**\<fluffypony>** can't think of anything else
**\<fluffypony>** re: 33C3 I'll be putting a post up on the forum in the next little while so everyone knows what's potting
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal checking issues
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok, they've been milestone'd
**\<fluffypony>** awesomesauce
**\<fluffypony>** when shall we three meeting again? (to quote Macbeth)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Alright, open issues should be organized enough / milestone'd where appropriate
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Anything else on 4.?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** (4. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A)
**\<fluffypony>** nothing from my side
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** So what I'm currently working (of the milestoned issues): #191, #312, #342
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi] i will keep working on coverety isues
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Will do #213 later
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** For the memory leaks (and other memory problems): the ntcp branch has a couple of fixes
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Currently working on a (partial) fix of #342
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** You're not assigned to #342, I can add you unless you wanted to add yourself
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** I'll assign
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** https://github.com/monero-project/kovri/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0.1.0-alpha+assignee%3AEinMByte
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** So to be clear, the backtrace you posted 4 hours ago is what I fixed
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** (but not yet pushed because unforseen issues)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I posted two. I imagine you're talking about the NTCP one
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Yes
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Won't touch the client issue for now
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Yay client
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** https://github.com/monero-project/kovri/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0.1.0-alpha+assignee%3Aanonimal
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** That covers a small fraction of what I'll end up fixing / working on
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** For #187 (NTCP core issues), the main thing left to fix is the inbound NTCP
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I just don't assign myself in case someone else wants to grab something
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** EinMByte: yeah, running tcpdump against kovri --log-to-console 0 --v6 1 --enable-ssu 0
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal pasting
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Yes, and I'd ask everyone else wanting to help out to do the same
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 19:42:20.974119 IP6 2001:0:9d38:6ab8:2c92:2e09:b8ee:e2d.59823 > me.11552: Flags [S], seq 1067814148, win 8192, options [mss 1220,nop,wscale 8,nop,nop,sackOK], length 0
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 19:42:28.017709 IP6 2001:0:9d38:6ab8:2c92:2e09:b8ee:e2d.59823 > me.11552: Flags [S], seq 1067814148, win 8192, options [mss 1220,nop,nop,sackOK], length 0
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** guzzi: Try this if you get bored with coverity issues
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Let's take mroe NTCP chat outside of the meeting since this is being logged
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** (--v6 not necessary, just see if you get inbound traffic, and paste logs when you do)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** *more
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Yes, I know, just happens to be the instance that is running
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** ok
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** guzzi any questions about tickets, etc.?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I'll be around after meeting, moving on.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 5. Any additional meeting items
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** no you have given me good tips lately
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** i appreciate it.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok good, glad to help.
**\<fluffypony>** that's it from me
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Glad to have you onboard.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Nothing from me on 5.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Last call for 5.
**\<fluffypony>** going once, going twice, sold!
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** What about the website, though?
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal backtracks to 5.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** (or did I just miss that)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** fluffypony: do you have any details yet?
**\<fluffypony>** EinMByte: I said that now that we're wrapping up the logo I can get back on the bandwagon with that
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** And it *will* be online by first release fluffypony, yes?
**\<fluffypony>** absolutely
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Well, it was supposed to be done by today
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** lol, EinMByte cracking the whip
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** So, what's the real deadline?
**\<fluffypony>** oh - there must've been a miscommunication; when we decided on the logo finalists I said I was shelving it till we'd completed the logo decision
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I think deadline should be at the very least a week before 33C3.
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: long before then
**\<fluffypony>** we're keeping it simple initially, remember
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** As long as it works and doesn't look terrible, I'm happy.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Should we make a concrete date for website like we are for kovri release?
**\<fluffypony>** let's see where we get before the next meeting and re-address it then
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** ok
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Let's put that on the roadmap
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** One thing for 5.,
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** questioning if we should move build instructions to wiki
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** (github wiki)
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** A) easier, doesn't pollute git log B) makes us reliant on github
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** A good, B bad.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Any thoughts? or we can move this to next meeting
**\<fluffypony>** I think that's a bad idea
**\<fluffypony>** if someone clones the repo they should have everything they need right there
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** But if they don't have network connectivity, kovri is useless
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** I tend to agree with fluffypony
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** And if they can clone from github, they have access to the website
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: what if Github blocks Tor access after they've cloned it?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** And if they have access to either, they can read build instructions.
**\<fluffypony>** not everyone will be able to checkout an old commit to get build instructions
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** There could be a tutorial of some sort in the wiki
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** But basic build instructions should be in the repo
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Alright, no arguments from me, just questioning
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Anything else on 5.?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** We're out of time
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** 2 weeks from now, works best I think.
**\<fluffypony>** 2 weeks from now plz
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok, sept. 25th, same time
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** ok
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Thanks everyone. Thanks #monero-dev for the logo input too
**\<meeting-bot> [guzzi]** ok
\ No newline at end of file
---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2016-09-11
summary: brief update on 0MQ, Ring CT, and the official GUI, and hardfork schedule, and introduction of pigeons (sysops/devops)
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto, 0mq]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*September 11th, 2016*
# Logs
**\<fluffypony>** Hi all
**\<fluffypony>** I'm on my phone
**\<ArticMine>** Hi all
**\<tooquick_4u>** hello
**\<DaveyJones>** NoodleDoodle, TheKoziTwo,
**\<DaveyJones>** anyone else?
**\<pigeons>** hola
**\<DaveyJones>** luigi1112, listening or cruising ;)
**\<DaveyJones>** jwinterm
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** hyc and moneromooo are around afaik
**\<tewinget>** fluffypony: if you wanna just give a list of things to cover, one of us can conduct the meeting. (assuming you don't wanna have to type a shitload on your phone)
**\<fluffypony>** Well I think let's start with 0MQ, tewinget
**\<fluffypony>** Then you can talk and I don't have to
**\<fluffypony>** :-P
**\<tewinget>** well, I wanted to have more news, but I'm having to do a full distro upgrade to get a newer boost on this craptop, and the internet is slow as balls...so I don't really have much in the way of updates. Soon™. Need to merge RingCT stuff into my zmq branch, then make the new RingCT-related RPC calls (as well as updating any others as needed), then should be golden for basic implementation.
**\<tewinget>** will try to get most of that done today or tomorrow.
**\<fluffypony>** This is daemon only right now right?
**\<tewinget>** daemon RPC, and a lib to use it that libwallet will call into.
**\<fluffypony>** ok - and then next thing after daemon is buttoned up is a wallet 0MQ endpoint right?
**\<tewinget>** but yes, for right now I'm working on the daemon's RPC. Once that's in a good spot I can move onto wallet RPC. Oh, and I think since the last dev meeting I redid the formatting of the RPC commands to get JSON-RPC 2.0 compliant.
**\<fluffypony>** Ok so tewinget let me ask about the backwards-compatible stub
**\<fluffypony>** Coz obviously we still need a stub for those that insist on touching the daemon using old RPC
**\<fluffypony>** Is that just a matter of refactoring it out of the daemon?
**\<tewinget>** well...so *my* plan was to leave the old RPC in place until we decide "yea, that's for sure deprecated and gonna be removed now"
**\<fluffypony>** That's fine - I meant as a later exercise
**\<fluffypony>** Just trying to gauge the amount of effort it's going to take
**\<tewinget>** hmm, well, a wrapper around the old RPC to hook into the new wouldn't be *too* hard...
**\<tewinget>** just tedious
**\<fluffypony>** I know it's tedious
**\<fluffypony>** What if we made it generic
**\<fluffypony>** Like it translated the RPC call directly
**\<fluffypony>** If it fails pass the error back
**\<fluffypony>** Oh wait that won't work
**\<fluffypony>** The 0MQ calls are different
**\<tewinget>** not hugely different, but different in some cases, yes. with good reason...
**\<fluffypony>** Ok so tedious because it requires everything implemented as a 0MQ client, got it
**\<fluffypony>** As a practical matter
**\<fluffypony>** We need to consider something like cppnetlib for TLS and auth
**\<tewinget>** I'm trying to make switching costs as low as possible, but I can't make it nonzero.
**\<fluffypony>** And implement that as a matter of some urgency, since the entire net_skeleton thing was a colossal waste of time
**\<fluffypony>** Ok tks tewinget - anything else from your side?
**\<tewinget>** yea, I might make TLS and auth a priority ahead of wallet RPC (since it will need auth anyway)
**\<tewinget>** other than that, not really.
**\<tewinget>** carry on.
**\<moneromooo>** "I can't make it nonzero" <-- excellent!
**\<fluffypony>** Hokay
**\<fluffypony>** LOL
**\<fluffypony>** Nice catch
**\<hyc>** lol
**\<fluffypony>** breaking: Monero contributor works for free!
**\<hyc>** just tuning in, was teaking my ARM code
**\<tewinget>** god dammit.
**\<fluffypony>** Instant delivery!
**\<tewinget>** well, moneromooo, I can't
**\<tewinget>** because it has to use ZERO MQ
**\<fluffypony>** Hah hah
**\<tewinget>** #SavedIt
**\<hyc>** :P
**\<fluffypony>** #dadjokes
**\<fluffypony>** At any rate
**\<fluffypony>** I'd like to introduce pigeons
**\<fluffypony>** He's recently started doing some stuff with me
**\<fluffypony>** and he's kindly going to help us redo our sysops / devops
**\<fluffypony>** For all projects, including Kovri
**\<hyc>** nice
**\<pigeons>** Hi guys. :)
**\<moneromooo>** Hi
**\<hyc>** hey there
**\<fluffypony>** pigeons: tell us a bit about yourself or whatever
**\<fluffypony>** "Long walks on the beach" and all that
**\<hyc>** I guess the population explosion kinda demanded more ops
**\<moneromooo>** I see what a sysop is, but not a devop.
**\<pigeons>** I like pina coladas and getting lost in te rain. Ive been syadmin type stuff forever.
**\<ArticMine>** Hi pigeons
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: devops is like CI and build boxes and that
**\<pigeons>** devops is the new term for brogrammers who use docker and jenkins CI etc
**\<moneromooo>** Oh nice :)
**\<fluffypony>** Hah hah
**\<hyc>** I think a devop is a developer with rootpw on all production machines. sysaop's worst nightmare :P
**\<fluffypony>** Devops-as-a-Service
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<pigeons>** but yeah im gonna try and get buildbot ci going the system chromium and some others use
**\<pigeons>** get builds and tests for arm, windows, mac, freebsd, linux 32 64
**\<fluffypony>** Also the immediate aim is to be able to push nightlies to the site
**\<hyc>** nice
**\<iDunk>** #1047 did this
**\<iDunk>** oops
**\<i2p-relay> {-guzzi}** hi pigeons
**\<fluffypony>** So the broader community can test without waiting for fluffypony to build
**\<pigeons>** eventually look at gitian style reproducible builds
**\<hyc>** ARM is gonna be 3 distinct builds, ARMv6, ARMv7, ARMv8
**\<hyc>** rapidly proliferating...
**\<pigeons>** ok cool
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: I think we'll have to drop ARMv6 for performance concerns
**\<fluffypony>** If not now then soon
**\<hyc>** ok, fair enough
**\<fluffypony>** Also on that note
**\<hyc>** yeah, the perf/watt just isn't there on ARMv6
**\<fluffypony>** Am I correct in saying that QEMU is about the only way we're going to get arm7/8 build boxes?
**\<fluffypony>** Or does anyone know of hosted native arm boxes?
**\<hyc>** there's an ARM VPS provider out there
**\<pigeons>** yeah what are they called again, there is one
**\<tewinget>** someone recommended one to me just the other day, oddly enough...can't remember the name.
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<bitjedi>** awww. i still use my pi zero nodes
**\<bitjedi>** which are arm v6
**\<fluffypony>** bitjedi: they'll choke on RingCT
**\<iDunk>** scaleway.com ?
**\<hyc>** scaleways?
**\<hyc>** yeah
**\<bitjedi>** are u sure it's cpu and not io?
**\<fluffypony>** Awesome
**\<fluffypony>** Isn't scaleways native and not virtualised?
**\<fluffypony>** I seem to vaguely recall
**\<tewinget>** I think it was Scaleway
**\<hyc>** hm, they claim bare metal, yeah
**\<pigeons>** theres one ovhi or somone in scandanavia
**\<fluffypony>** Ok
**\<fluffypony>** Also the implication is that anyone relying on the Mac / 32-bit test boxes should expect an impending change
**\<fluffypony>** I think anonimal primarily uses them
**\<fluffypony>** Also we'll hopefully be able to provide broader access to test hardware in future
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** * has yet to use 32-bit boxes
**\<fluffypony>** Ok then FreeBSD
**\<fluffypony>** Has anyone tried the WIP boost 1.60 port on BSD?
**\<hyc>** haven't touched BSD in years
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** Last I checked, build failed hard on freebsd for monero.
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** Works with kovri.
**\<fluffypony>** xmj is our resident BSD expert and even he hasn't touched boost 1.60
**\<fluffypony>** If anyone wants to volunteer to play with that great
**\<fluffypony>** We also need to start thinking about packaging
**\<fluffypony>** lol relevant PR is relevant
**\<fluffypony>** hyc how do you guys handle packaging for like Debian / Ubuntu?
**\<hyc>** eh, OpenLDAP Project is source-code only, distros do their own packaging
**\<fluffypony>** Coz my concern with farming it out is that we end up with old versions on old distros
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** fluffypony: I was planning to work with the monero bsd build (only freebsd though) once we get kovri releases going
**\<hyc>** yes, that's a pervasive problem with distros
**\<fluffypony>** Tks anonimal - I'll also fiddle
**\<fluffypony>** When I have time, so never :-P
**\<fluffypony>** Ok next thing
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: want to talk about the rct serialisation changes?
**\<fluffypony>** And the impact on testnet
**\<moneromooo>** It's finished. It's on github ready to merge. And it will need reorganizing on testnet, yes.
**\<moneromooo>** So, I guess someone with hash power will have to pop N blocks till before v4, and mine.
**\<moneromooo>** After a few daysm it'll reorg for everyone :)
**\<moneromooo>** And we'll get to test deep reogs.
**\<hyc>** so anyone mining testnet right now should stop
**\<moneromooo>** Unless you want to test stuff.
**\<iDunk>** i exported the raw blockchain up to 800499. that's before v3, right?
**\<tewinget>** well that's not entirely necessary >**_>**
**\<moneromooo>** Yes.
**\<iDunk>** and v4 is... ?
**\<iDunk>** 802000 or so iirc ?
**\<moneromooo>** 801220
**\<jjiia>** XMR up or down
**\<iDunk>** ah, k
**\<fluffypony>** I think my miner is off atm
**\<fluffypony>** it had that hiccup and I never fixed it coz stuff
**\<moneromooo>** rct soon!
**\<fluffypony>** ok so moneromooo
**\<ArticMine>** It had to be done
**\<MalMen>** are you guys forking the testnet ?
**\<fluffypony>** when it loads the blockchain on the new code
**\<MalMen>** im gonnad do a testnet classic
**\<fluffypony>** it *should* freak out
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** Is this the meeting where we can discusses CI for CD?
**\<fluffypony>** and rollback?
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: CD? like compact discs?
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** Laser-only releases
**\<moneromooo>** It'll probably moan a bit, but not overly.
**\<fluffypony>** :-P
**\<fluffypony>** ok but what I mean is
**\<fluffypony>** when we load a blockchain off disk we don't re-verify
**\<MalMen>** the dev meeting is still going on or to late ?
**\<fluffypony>** so will we have to manually pop blocks?
**\<dEBRUYNE>** still going on MalMen
**\<moneromooo>** Yes.
**\<fluffypony>** ok so I'll merge tomorrow afternoon, gives us a day for review
**\<moneromooo>** Just the miner. Others will just reorg when the miner passes the old chain's diff.
**\<moneromooo>** (hopefully)
**\<fluffypony>** and then I'll do some block-popping tomorrow night
**\<fluffypony>** and hopefully deep reorgs
**\<moneromooo>** luigi1112: btw, you'll want to read the latest get_transaction_hash and comment. It's still 3 parts.
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** then the next thing is our hard fork date and the next release
**\<fluffypony>** we're planning on finalising final bits and releasing 0.10 shortly
**\<fluffypony>** but obviously RingCT (ie. v4 blocks) is not ready for even a final inclusion in this code freeze
**\<fluffypony>** given that we're still making changes
**\<fluffypony>** so I'd like some input from contributors and those present as to how to handle the v4 fork, since we have a couple of options
**\<fluffypony>** either:
**\<fluffypony>** 1. we leave v4 till March 2016
**\<iDunk>** 2017
**\<fluffypony>** tks 2017
**\<fluffypony>** 2. we change the "complain about a fork" date to like end-of-November, with an aim to forking to v4 end of December
**\<fluffypony>** so coded freeze beginning of December
**\<fluffypony>** (this would make RCT transactions potentially available on mainnet from Jan 1)
**\<fluffypony>** but obviously there's the risk of breakage
**\<hyc>** maybe December is too soon, how about January?
**\<fluffypony>** so if we had to do Jan, then when do we do v5?
**\<fluffypony>** March is too close to Jan for v5, imho
**\<ArticMine>** fluffypony My preference is 2, but my biggest concern is the amount of time left for finalization of development and testing
**\<dEBRUYNE>** We don't necessarily have to decide the exact dates now, but I think option 2 would be best
**\<fluffypony>** ok so what if we did 2, but then pushed the v5 fork to September next year
**\<hyc>** if we have v4 in January then June/July would be OK
**\<fluffypony>** that way RCT is available on mainnet early on, but if anything breaks we have 9 months to fix it
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: I don't want to go too far away from our schedule
**\<hyc>** ok
**\<dEBRUYNE>** \<hyc> if we have v4 in January then June/July would be OK <= Fine with that too
**\<DaveyJones>** sounds reasonable to me
**\<dEBRUYNE>** Like I said, we can always decide on the exact dates later
**\<fluffypony>** like this is major enough to warrant a change, but we should aim for a singular change
**\<hyc>** so march/september is the cadence we're aiming for?
**\<ArticMine>** Yes I like the idea of advancing V4 fork but keeping the v5 fork on schedule
**\<tewinget>** I agree, singular deviation from the schedule is preferable.
**\<hyc>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** hyc: yep
**\<dEBRUYNE>** fluffypony: most people will use Ring CT transactions anyway
**\<fluffypony>** so we bring v4 a bit forward, and leave v5 as scheduled
**\<lurker>** yes
**\<fluffypony>** dEBRUYNE: we can always make it the non-default, like we did with transfer_new
**\<hyc>** sounds good
**\<dEBRUYNE>** yeah agree
**\<ArticMine>** agree
**\<fluffypony>** ok so we'll move the freak-out to early December, and actual fork block height will be decided at that code freeze
**\<fluffypony>** but likely late Dec / early Jan or so
**\<fluffypony>** and v5 stays for September 2017
**\<fluffypony>** consensus: reached!
**\<DaveyJones>** \o/
**\<fluffypony>** (it's so easy when you're tiny and only like 5 people have to agree, lol)
**\<fluffypony>** I think that's about it from my side, there's something else but I completely can't remember
**\<fluffypony>** is there anything else that anyone wants to bring up?
**\<ferretinjapan>** I dunno multisig for bitcoin was a bitch...
**\<hyc>** current freeze, release date?
**\<tewinget>** since Ilya's not here...
**\<i2p-relay> {-anonimal}** I moved kovri logo decision agenda to the beginning of kovri meeting in 10'ish minutes so we can catch everyone before they leave