Add logs for Kovri and dev meeting

parent 16293753
---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2016-06-19
summary: Brief review of what has been completed since last meeting, C++ specific discussion, closed and open issues
tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*June 19th, 2016*
# Logs
**\<fluffypony>** ok I guess we move on to Kovri - anonimal, the floor is yours
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** From agenda https://github.com/monero-project/kovri/issues/192
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 17:00 (UTC)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 1. Greetings
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 3. C++ specific discussion (carried over from June 5th meeting)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 4. Review open tickets (assigned and/or unassigned): status, code ideas (if applicable), etc.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 5. Discuss any pertinent TODO's
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 6. Any additional meeting items
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 7. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 1. Greetings
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Hi
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** EinMByte: present?
**\<fluffypony>** there's 2x greetings?
**\<fluffypony>** best meeting ever
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** lol
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Well, EinMByte is here but not present.
**\<fluffypony>** k
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Moving on,
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** A somewhat productive two weeks in contrasting areas. Highlights include:
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** - New --log-levels runtime feature
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** - Security fix in Garlic/ElGamal
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** - New user-agent scrubber
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** - Bump to 0.9.26
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** - Coverity coverage via travis-ci (though problematic, see #209)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** - Design refactoring, misc. refactoring, code documentation
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 6 closed issues
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 2 new standing issues
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** fluffypony: have you had a chance to complete anything since previous meeting?
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: like 80%-ish done with the Kovri page on the site, per the info you gave me + the docs
**\<fluffypony>** s/page/section
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Great, I'm looking forward to it.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Do you think it will be finished before next meeting?
**\<fluffypony>** yes definitely
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Yay, sounds exciting.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anything else on 2.?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Going once... going twice...
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 3. C++ specific discussion (carried over from June 5th meeting)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Well, I was hoping to merge this in with 4. and chat with EinMByte since he said he'd be here.
**\<fluffypony>** is this wrt the C++ standard ?
**\<fluffypony>** or the style guide stuff?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anything C++, I imagined.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I was hoping to focus on C++ related to #187, but I haven't looked at #187 since it was opened.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Have any bitmonero devs taken an interest in Kovri yet?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Its quite the beast, and needs much taming.
**\<fluffypony>** I don't think anyone has yet
**\<tewinget>** anonimal: passing interest at best for me
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok, good to know.
**\<tewinget>** I more or less know what it is, but I haven't looked into tinkering with it yet.
**\<moneromooo>** I think the problem is that the time I'd spend hacking on anything, I wouldn't spend on monero anymore :)
**\<fluffypony>** s'true
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I totally understand.
**\<fluffypony>** there will be a bleed area between the two when integration happens
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** That makes, so patience and persistence seems to be the key.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** *makes sense
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Well, anonymity has a certain taste too. Maybe I'm one of the few fanatics who enjoy working on it ;)
**\<fluffypony>** I think most of us are here because we're pro-privacy
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anyway, I look forward to the meeting of the minds, I like what I've seen in bitmonero dev.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Yes, good point.
**\<fluffypony>** which is awesome :)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anything else on 3.? Any questions?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Alrighty, moving on,
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 4. Review open tickets (assigned and/or unassigned): status, code ideas (if applicable), etc.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Let's see,
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal, also, if EinMbyte can't make the meeting maybe we must collate stuff and raise it on his behalf ?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** How so?
**\<fluffypony>** like if he just adds to the agenda then we can discuss it without him needing to be here
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok, well he's welcome to do that.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** But he and I are great at bouncing ideas off each other and getting to core issues, so I wish he would be present more often.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I see, so we'll send him a note to add to the agenda regardless of his attending?
**\<fluffypony>** yes I think that would help, he lacks time at the moment
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok.
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** back to 4.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** #210 might be an easy fix, if any bitmonero devs want to take a peek.
**\<fluffypony>** once you go Kovri you never go...uh...something that rhymes with Kovri
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** lol
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** That's a tough one....
**\<fluffypony>** https://github.com/monero-project/kovri/issues/210 <- for reference
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Remaining tickets are mostly all hard-core. I'll see what I can get into before the next meeting. Obviously the big ones would be nice if I can make the time.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I may pick at #191 or #187 because I get irritated with severely broken things.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Or who knows what, the world is full of mysterious and discovery.
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** *mystery
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** lol
**\<fluffypony>** invent a time machine !
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** pffffffffff
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** That would be fun.
**\<fluffypony>** :-P
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Does anyone here work with Debian Jessie often?
**\<fluffypony>** tewinget is an Arch user
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo wrote his own OS from scratch I'm sure
**\<fluffypony>** osensei maybe
**\<fluffypony>** but he's not around atm
**\<moneromooo>** I use a pretty common one nowdays actually.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok just curious. Arch here so #210 will probably take more than a few moments.
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: Windows XP ?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** ^ Windows 98
**\<moneromooo>** Good point. I guess it's not that common. I forgot about windows.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 95 was better at breaking.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok, well re: 4., fluffypony have you see #209?
**\<fluffypony>** probably
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 50% yay because we solved the coverity/travis issue!
**\<fluffypony>** oh yes the Coverity thing
**\<fluffypony>** ok so plz update me - Travis builds are now work
**\<fluffypony>** *working
**\<fluffypony>** but Coverity isn't triggering ?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** No, we are *finally* triggering, but now coverity says build is failing on their end.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** So, travis says "we're fine", coverity says "you're not fine but neither is most of my site".
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Because they really do have some issues there and support is... meh.
**\<fluffypony>** LOL
**\<fluffypony>** considering how long it took for their site to pick Travis up I'm not even surprised
**\<fluffypony>** do we wait until they've fixed it, or keep pushing
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Seriously, and their "community" site is still offline despite "we'll be back in early 2016!".
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** It's June already...
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Good question,
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I can review *why* they think our build failed, I could even try to do it manually.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I may have to do it manually just to get things going *or*, it could be another travis/coverity issue (or just pure coverity).
**\<fluffypony>** maybe we must switch to manual Coverity
**\<fluffypony>** and just do it once every two weeks
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Sounds fair, I'll give it shot before next meeting.
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** before I forget, opens https://github.com/monero-project/kovri/issues/assigned/fluffypony
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** fluffypony: Any updates on #27?
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** knows you've been busy, simply curious
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: no - also, we're switching providers
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok.
**\<fluffypony>** debating Zoho vs. FastMail
**\<fluffypony>** ProtonMail doesn't do multiple users on a domain, unfortunately
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Hmmm...
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Pros/Cons so far re: providers?
**\<fluffypony>** well they're mostly doing forwarding and SMTP, so it's pretty open
**\<fluffypony>** part of the decision making is cost, part is also reliability and if they feature reasonable web interfaces for those inevitable users that don't want to use a mail client
**\<fluffypony>** will wrap that up soon, it's on my short list
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok, good to know.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I don't have an opionion so far. If I do I'll be sure to chip in.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Is xmrpromotions there? re: #105
**\<fluffypony>** no not online atm
**\<fluffypony>** I'll prod them for that when I see them next
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** K.
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** typing
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I'll most likely take a look at bitmonero's 0MQ work too before next meeting (thinking of #53).
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Other than that, I may just grab some low hanging fruit before next meeting and work on the mingw build and other smaller tickets.
**\<tewinget>** anonimal, feel free to direct any 0mq questions at ~~fluffypony~~ me
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Thanks tewinget.
**\<fluffypony>** oh yeah speaking of
**\<tewinget>** sad that my IRC client doesn't support strikeout...hoping someone else's does
**\<fluffypony>** the Windows test box is borked
**\<fluffypony>** msys2 decided to give up the ghost
**\<fluffypony>** so doing a complete reinstall of it
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Yeah, so what happened? Any idea?
**\<fluffypony>** no clue
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** (very strange)
**\<tewinget>** On a scale from 1 to I hate compiling anything on Windows: I hate compiling anything on Windows.
**\<tewinget>** it's a binary scale.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Oh windows, you never cease to disappoint me.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anything else on 4.?
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** quick reviewing
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Hi, I'm late sorry
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** EinMByte! Welcome back.
**\<fluffypony>** wb EinMByte
**\<fluffypony>** still 15 minutes left :)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** With 15 minutes or so to spare, any input? (much backlog)
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Something about #210 maybe: I'll provide some more information
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** EinMByte: before I forget and while you're here: what is your preferred/most-reliable public contact method?
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** public as in to put on a website or so, or as in where you guys can contact me
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** So we can contact you.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** And would you be interested in leaving agenda TODO's/notes in meeting tickets in case you can't make a meeting that you'd hope to make?
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Well I'll be on IRC, or else [email protected] or github
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** sure
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** fluffypony: did I word that correctly?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** EinMByte: we're still on point 4. "reviewing tickets", etc.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Is there anything you wanted to add re: SSU?
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** knows you just got back to working on it
**\<fluffypony>** yes I think so
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Well I can give you a quick status update
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Awesome.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** So SSUSession.cpp is now using the new parsing code, except for the fragments
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** (I have the code to parse data packets, just not using it yet)
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** I am slowed down right now due to a bug, with the header I suspect
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Grrr... bugs...
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** (Rekey options being set etc when this shouldn't happen, I think it's all related)
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Well, I'll try to fix it in the next days
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** bitmonero devs: FYI, SSU is the ugly High School girl standing in the corner of the dance hall that no one will dance with because she is awkward and is a very mean person.
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** In other words, SSU has needed much love and I'm glad EinMByte has tackled the challenge.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Hah, nice comparison - although it does make me seem quite desperate :P
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** lol, oops. Sorry EinMByte, I didn't mean it that way :(
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Once the parsing part is done, I'll do something similar to build the packets
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Sounds great.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** How about, EinMByte dances with her because he is a leader and willing to show great sympathy to those who need it most.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** I'll write some tests, but don't expect full coverage just yet. I don't think that's a priority right now.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** And turns down the more promising dancers to make SSU work well.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** (I want to get the API started too)
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** sorry, I'm getting carried away
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Do you have an idea of schedule coming up?
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** (as in availability)
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** anonimal: You're making a lot of assumptions about my gender here :). But let's see how well that dance turns out
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I know, again my apologies.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Yes, next week I'll be mostly available (several hours per day)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok. I'll check my IRC more frequently then.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anything else on 4.?
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Well as I said I'll put up more info for #210
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Seems like 2 tests are failing
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Since we're out of time, I don't see much on 5. except for a couple of quirky core ones that I may get to before next meeting.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Any comments on 5.?
**\<fluffypony>** EinMByte: well you can dance with SSUzy regardless of your gender
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** SSUzy, lol.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** fluffypony: or my ability to dance :p
**\<fluffypony>** everyone can dance, it's just a matter of how badly (or well)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Paraplegics?
***\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** doesn't do off-topic very often, quite the release.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok so if no thoughts on 5.,
**\<fluffypony>** LOL
**\<fluffypony>** nobody is going to attend the Kovri meeting in future :-P
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** LMAO
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** watches ship sailing away, burning in the distance
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** See you all next time in #dancing
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok, last call for 5. Discuss any pertinent TODO's
**\<fluffypony>** I think that's it from my side
**\<fluffypony>** lol EinMByte
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** lol, or #dancing-dev
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Well, for 5: If anyone wants to start on the API, you're welcome
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** This also applies to all (any?) monero people reading this
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Good point, that's another big item to tackle.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Since you're going to be the people using the API, making up a list of requirements would be nice
***\<fluffypony>** kk
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 6. Any additional meeting items
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Just one from me, briefly,
**\<fluffypony>** I think we've already discussed EinMByte's dancing enough, so nothing more from me on 6
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Forum Funding. I plan on writing up some proposals within the next month or so.
**\<fluffypony>** kk
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** EinMByte: if you were crowdfunded on FFS, would you be able to devote any more dev time?
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** I've already told fluffypony, not really
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Ok.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** If you can build me a time machine, yes
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** was planning proposals to fund my work
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Funny, fluffypony mentioned that earlier (time machine).
**\<fluffypony>** lol
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** We should invest in one. The writing is on the wall.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Last call for 6.
**\<fluffypony>** new project for the Monero Research Lab to tackle
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** But, as I've also told fluffypony, please do fund other programmers
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Agreed.
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Apparently you first need the programmer (before getting the money) so let's go find some C++ programmers
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** fluffypony: ^ we should devote an entire meeting to that IMHO sometime within the next few months.
**\<fluffypony>** yeah definitely
**\<grimpants>** would love to see a FFS proposal for kovri/i2p dev
**\<fluffypony>** grimpants: we've had open-ended stuff before, the funds just sit there and no dev comes along - we need to first find someone interested that can price in their work, even if it's on a full time commitment for X long
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** By the way, we don't need only expert C++ programmers
**\<fluffypony>** and then we can raise funds accordingly
**\<grimpants>** i see
**\<grimpants>** been a while since ive check tbh
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** We can use people who just write documentation / tests too
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** ^ which is a great way for newcomers to learn the codebase.
**\<fluffypony>** this may not be an honourable line of thought, but I've been wondering if there's any fall-out from the issues Tor are facing that might lead to some new contributors looking at Kovri
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Good concern, I think that's very plausible.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** But the devoted C person usually scoffs at C++ and turn their nose at Java.
**\<fluffypony>** like hyc :-P
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** I've become spoiled with STL so, I can't vouch for C devotees on more complex apps like Kovri.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** But bigger point:
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** The world needs more options, so if Tor starts to burn, another ship will be ready.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Some great minds there, so I'm not concerned about the near future.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** But that was a hefty loss on their end with the one who shall remain nameless.
**\<fluffypony>** yeah, and the larger loss is how much emotional damage it did to people during the time it was kept hidden
**\<fluffypony>** as a community I hope we can learn from that and call people out when they're out of line
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Yeah, everyone involved seems to have taken a loss.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** So, regarding that in relation to ship-jumpers: I think we should continue on our track of availability, professionalism, quality, code correctness and maintainability,
**\<fluffypony>** 100%
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** But,
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** let's first get some people :)
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** devs can be strong in their ways, so being malleable is also important (but that's a given). Constant ebb and flow.
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Anything else on 6.?
**\<fluffypony>** that's it from my side
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** 7. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Same time in two weeks?
**\<meeting-bot> [EinMByte]** Nothing else from me
**\<fluffypony>** yes same time in two weeks
**\<meeting-bot> [anominal]** Alright. A million thanks to everyone.
**\<fluffypony>** taking meeting-bot down
\ No newline at end of file
---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2016-06-19
summary: C4, open PRs, and brief update on Ring CT and 0MQ
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto, 0mq]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*June 19th, 2016*
# Overview (by Aerbax)
An overview [can be found on Hello Monero](https://hellomonero.com/article/monero-bi-weekly-dev-meeting-note-highlights-2016-06-19)
# Logs
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\<fluffypony>** hello and welcome
**\<tewinget>** ack
**\<wallet42>** Sup fluffypony
**\<fluffypony>** so first things first
**\<meeting-bot>** [anonimal] EinMByte: ^ Monero meeting now, Kovri in about an hour or so (just FYI)
**\<fluffypony>** after the last meeting, which was mostly focused on C4, we bounced some of that around
**\<fluffypony>** I think the spirit of C4 is good, and will help keep Monero inclusionary towards new contributors
**\<fluffypony>** but moneromooo in particular disagreed with some of the specifics
**\<fluffypony>** or where C4 is a little vague
**\<fluffypony>** so what we're going to do is fork C4 from Unprotocols / yrashk into the Monero repo
**\<meeting-bot>** [psi] c4?
**\<fluffypony>** and we'll tweak it from there, keeping it in step with changes made upstream in Unprotocols
**\<fluffypony>** psi: the Collaborative Code Construction Contract, see last meeting's minutes for an intro and discussion
**\<meeting-bot>** [anonimal] Or Kovri's contributing guide.
**\<fluffypony>** yup
**\<fluffypony>** I think everyone is aware that this is security software we're dealing with
**\<fluffypony>** and we can't be crazy and accept things that may contain backdoors
**\<fluffypony>** but we also want some structure that makes contributors feel welcome, even if their contributions need some work and aren't up to a standard we'd like
**\<fluffypony>** somewhere inbetween being completely permissive and miring contributions in PR hell is a nice balance, and we'll figure it out
**\<ArticMine>** We need to balance security and making contributors welcome
**\<fluffypony>** yup exactly
**\<fluffypony>** ok so on to more fiddly code bits, less soft skills
**\<fluffypony>** I was hoping tewinget could update us on the 0MQ work, which is about to go up on the forum for funding
**\<tewinget>** ok
**\<moneromooo>** My point was not security, it was more about the crazy wish to keep obvious crap in.
**\<tewinget>** https://www.github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/zmq-dev **\<-- there's the branch, gimme one min to take care of something then I can brief
**\<fluffypony>** ok
**\* fluffypony plays hold music
**\* tewinget is typing
**\* DaveyJones just watches
**\<tewinget>** ok, so far I've got cryptonote::classes to/from json for a majority of what will need to be serialized for RPC. I have a couple of RPC calls actually written and working via ZMQ (get_height get_transactions, and key_images_spent)
**\<tewinget>** that's more or less a summary of progress
**\<tewinget>** as far as process
**\<tewinget>** the idea is to try to create RPC as we want it to be, rather than trying to modify the existing structure, and then plug in backwards-compatibility later
**\<fluffypony>** tewinget: so using the structure that is / was on the Wikia ?
**\<meeting-bot>** [psi] to rehash, you are redoing monero's wire protocol to use zmq correct?
**\<fluffypony>** psi: no, not wire protocol, that will use ZMTP (a part of the 0MQ project) and come later
**\<tewinget>** psi: more or less, but a bit more than just that
**\<tewinget>** oh
**\<tewinget>** I mean, kinda wire, but not p2p yet
**\<tewinget>** rpc
**\<fluffypony>** this is redoing the communication between the node and "clients" like miners / mining pool software / wallets / etc.
**\<meeting-bot>** [psi] kk
**\<meeting-bot>** [psi] zmtp is still being drafted correct?
**\<fluffypony>** nope all done, afaik: http://zmtp.org
**\<tewinget>** \<fluffypony> tewinget: so using the structure that is / was on the Wikia ? <-- well, yes, but also I was hoping to get some input today (not necessarily now) from anyone who would like to comment on the future of RPC
**\<fluffypony>** it's already on v3
**\<fluffypony>** ok so maybe one of the things we need to do now is move that design doc from the Wikia to the Github wiki
**\<fluffypony>** wallet42: are you up to doing that, or busy travelling atm ?
**\<tewinget>** I can say that the few commands I've done don't necessarily conform to any spec like json-rpc, but that's easy to change -- structure is currently placeholder while functionality is implemented
**\<tewinget>** oh, one important detail I left out
**\<tewinget>** I think it's best if the RPC is straight json. This comes at a very, very minor cost in speed, but means that implementation in other languages will be far less intimidating for new contributors
**\<tewinget>** and I know I don't personally plan to write libMonero for every language out there...
**\<fluffypony>** oh I agree - the idea behind 0MQ is for a language to use 0MQ bindings and just be able to talk straight to the daemon
**\<tewinget>** yup, and this way for any language that has json and zmq bindings, all one needs to do is give the language a cursory understanding of cryptonote structs
**\<fluffypony>** if JSON is the way we want to do that that's fine, we can always modify it later to support Google's protobufs or something later on
**\<tewinget>** https://paste.fedoraproject.org/379294/14659488/ <-- there's an example of get_transactions
**\<tewinget>** it's also very nice to do ad-hoc testing via python :)
**\<fluffypony>** cool
**\<tewinget>** any thoughts, anyone?
**\<wallet42>** fluffypony: In about 3 weeks im back in Berlin, right now i only have like 1 day a week. But yes the wiki will get more data as I am moving myself trough the code
**\<wallet42>** Especially better wiki documentation of the datatypes/protocol
**\<wallet42>** wiki.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol basically
**\<fluffypony>** tewinget: how hard would it be to implement different schemes in future, like JSON / protobufs / ASN.1 BER ?
**\<fluffypony>** wallet42: ok cool, thank you
**\<tewinget>** fluffypony: wouldn't be too bad, I'm trying to make things pretty modular. It wouldn't be too bad to make it a bit more generic than json
**\<tewinget>** it's already 90% ready for that as-is
**\<fluffypony>** kk
**\<fluffypony>** alright, tewinget anything else or can we move on to the next thing ?
**\<tewinget>** the ZMQ-side of things was pretty trivial tbh
**\<tewinget>** oh, anyone averse to having a separate listening port for publish/subscribe such as "new_block_notify" etc?
**\<fluffypony>** you mean a separate port for pub-sub than the IPC port ?
**\<tewinget>** well, there will be a port for "request thing from daemon"
**\<tewinget>** can't use the same port for publish/subscribe, I'm pretty sure
**\<fluffypony>** I don't see a problem with that
**\<tewinget>** without an unholy amount of added complexity that isn't worth at all
**\<fluffypony>** one thing you may want to do is also look at Bitcoin's 0MQ effort
**\<fluffypony>** I don't think wumpus is around at the moment
**\<fluffypony>** but they've been pecking away at 0MQ for some time
**\<moneromooo>** Isn't the point of 0MQ to abstract comms to allow things like that ?
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: pub-sub is a different beast to control / request
**\<tewinget>** 0MQ uses different socket types like Request-Reply, or Pub/Sub
**\<fluffypony>** normally for pub-sub you're sending a request once and then receiving "push" notifications forever
**\<tewinget>** and one socket can only be one type, and I don't think you can bind two sockets to the same port, as how would it route that?
**\<fluffypony>** Bitcoin has walletnotify and blocknotify that work in that way
**\<tewinget>** so using the same port for req-rep and pub-sub would require...well, no, just no
**\<fluffypony>** it would end up looking gross like the RPC stuff at the moment
**\<tewinget>** moreso, in fact
**\<fluffypony>** different HTTP paths for the JSON and HTTP RPCs
**\<tewinget>** \<fluffypony> alright, tewinget anything else or can we move on to the next thing ? <-- happy to give a few minutes for any comments from anyone, but other than that I think that's about it
**\<fluffypony>** cool if anything pops up over the rest of the meeting then we can see
**\<tewinget>** oh, and feel free to give feedback on the branch, I'll repaste the link in a sec. Feedback here or via github is fine
**\<tewinget>** https://www.github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/zmq-dev
**\<fluffypony>** ok next, moneromooo do you feel like giving an update on RingCT? looks like it's making nice headway :)
**\<moneromooo>** It kinda works. I'm fixing bugs now.
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: is it going to be a hard fork where all new transactions are v3 / ringCT, but they can spend pre-ringCT outs?
**\<moneromooo>** They
**\<fluffypony>** they = transactions
**\<othe>** coinbase will use non-ringct tho?
**\<fluffypony>** othe: yes afaik
**\<moneromooo>** They'll be v2 and can spend either pre rct outputs or rct ones.
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: ooooh, so a soft fork? :-P
**\<moneromooo>** Hmm. I haven't thought about the distinction tbh.
**\<moneromooo>** Theoretically, coinbase might not even need to be in the clear I think. Though it'd require some shen magic.
**\<fluffypony>** I think it'd be a hard fork, because old nodes won't understand rct outs
**\<fluffypony>** so we'd have to bump the block version anyway
**\<ArticMine>** But will non RingCT other than coninbase transactions be valid?
**\<moneromooo>** Oh they'd reject new txes, yes.
**\<yrashk>** fluffypony: I'm thinking of an unprotocol for describing diverged unprotocols
**\<yrashk>** So meta
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: ok then that's hard fork
**\<fluffypony>** lol yrashk
**\<yrashk>** But I'm actually serious
**\<yrashk>** :)
**\<fluffypony>** yrashk: what's that Unprotocol for creating protocols with consensus?
**\<tewinget>** ArticMine: I think post-fork that all non-coinbase tx will be ringCT, but I'm not sure.
**\<moneromooo>** ArticMine: if you mean "will non RingCT outputs other than coninbase transactions be valid?", then I'd choose no, but it could be made either way.
**\<yrashk>** fluffypony: COSS? There's nothing about consensus there
**\<fluffypony>** yrashk: yes that - but it's about creating new protocols as a group, right ?
**\<yrashk>** Kind of but very very lightweight
**\<fluffypony>** kk
**\<yrashk>** Which is a good thing generally
**\<CFP>** Greetings fellas
**\<fluffypony>** moneromooo: I tend to agree with you - coinbase txs is fine, but after that it should be rct only
**\<CFP>** Crazyflashpie stoping by to say hello
**\<yrashk>** fluffypony: are you interested to collaborate on the protocol divergence protocol? (PDP)
**\<fluffypony>** hi CFP
**\<CFP>** Looks like the # of nodes in China is climbing?
**\<fluffypony>** yrashk: let's chat after the meeting, definitely interested in discussing it, as it's relevant to us
**\<yrashk>** I can explain my motivations behind it
**\<yrashk>** Today?
**\<yrashk>** Ping me on telegram or here when ready
**\<fluffypony>** kk
**\<fluffypony>** ok next I just wanted to bounce through some open PRs
**\<fluffypony>** #818 is still open pending luigi1111w / luigi1112 coming up with those spec changes, no rush there
**\<ArticMine>** moneromooo I would expect non RingCT outputs other than coinbase to be invalid after a given block
**\<fluffypony>** #775 is ready to be merged - moneromooo, just to double check, you're fine with that, right ?
**\<ArticMine>** With the 6 month upgrade cycle built in
**\<fluffypony>** ArticMine: agreed
**\<luigi1112>** Yes I'll try to do that this week
**\<moneromooo>** Yes. It's a wee bit spammier now in the logs, but other than that it's good to go.
**\<fluffypony>** ok then #810, the caching thing, I'm still confused as to whether we must merge or not
**\<moneromooo>** Not sure. I think enough said no.
**\<fluffypony>** ok I'll close it, we can reopen later
**\<moneromooo>** But then nobody patched the pool code :)
**\<fluffypony>** and pools can manually pull that in if they need
**\<fluffypony>** then the gcc 6.1 stuff - as I understand it there are more changes than what is covered in those two PRs
**\<fluffypony>** so do we close the PRs and just note that "gcc 6.1 not supported yet"
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Noooooooo.........
**\<fluffypony>** or do we merge them in preparation for supporting 6.1 ?
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Please nooooooo....
**\<fluffypony>** lol anonimal
**\<moneromooo>** If they'll be needed anyway...
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** This also re: #846?
**\<moneromooo>** One of them is a superset of the other IIRC.
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: yeah, 846 and 845
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** radfish's work builds, so is the problem more eyes/more time to review?
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: it was more that I was travelling, so I don't really know which is the superset of which, and which to close / merge / bail out of entirely :-P
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Oh, well I can spend some time this week giving input if that helps.
**\<moneromooo>** 846 seems to be the superset.
**\<tewinget>** PR X is a superset of PR Y seems like an odd situation to be in...
**\<tewinget>** especially if both are open
**\<fluffypony>** tewinget: quite
**\<neosilky_>** I had to merge them to get the repo to compile as GCC 6.1 is default for Arch
**\<fluffypony>** kk
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** re: that ^, I only merged #846 and builds fine.
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** I see the issue of both PR's being open, I can comment further this week after looking at them if they are still open by then.
**\<neosilky_>** Yep, only needed #846. @tewinget should enable testing repo too :)
**\<fluffypony>** ok then I'll close 845 and merge 846
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Ok.
**\<fluffypony>** then #856 I've reviewed and will merge
**\<fluffypony>** #855 seems fine to me, I defer to hyc's knowledge of his own product ;)
**\<fluffypony>** #863 seems fine too
**\<fluffypony>** #862 - luigi1112 can I take your comment as a review?
**\<moneromooo>** Oh. Let me change it now...
**\<gingeropolous>** tewinget, i may try and put this in a comment on the https://www.github.com/tewinget/bitmonero/tree/zmq-dev , but is this the space wherein the daemon could have multiple rpc ports with different characteristics?
**\<luigi1112>** I think it's fine yeah
**\<moneromooo>** pushed
**\<fluffypony>** k
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Has there been any definitive decisions re: C4 since previous meeting? I know there are differing arguments.
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal - yes, my comments at the beginning of the meeting, will let you know when the log is up if you missed them
**\<tewinget>** gingeropolous: not entirely sure what you mean to ask there
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** "we'll figure it out" <-- was that it?
**\<gingeropolous>** i.e., port 18081 would be full access, and 18082 could be less access.
**\<fluffypony>** anonimal: yes basically the next step is fork ->** adjust accordingly ->** decide to abandon or adopt the iteration
**\<gingeropolous>** right now if you want different permissions for remote access to the daemon, you need multiple daemons and multiple databases
**\<othe>** isnt an auth system with permissons better for this
**\<fluffypony>** gingeropolous: I'm of a mind that we need a finer distinction than "trusted daemon" and "not trusted"
**\<fluffypony>** we need a proper ACL
**\<fluffypony>** what othe said
**\<fluffypony>** so shelve it as a thing to do later on
**\<gingeropolous>** word
**\<fluffypony>** ok I think that's it from my side - anything else before we move to the Kovri meeting?
**\<tewinget>** glad someone else could answer that while I was rebooting. Stupid computer crashes frequently, pretty sure it's hardware.
**\<fluffypony>** tewinget: you should buy a Mac :-P
**\<ArticMine>** No
**\<tewinget>** fluffypony: I thought we were friends...
**\<tewinget>** tbh if a newer Mac (not new, with that single port, but new-ish) landed on my lap I'd throw Linux on it and use it
**\<tewinget>** but I'd never buy one, they're way too expensive for what they are.
**\<othe>** actually the macbook pro are good value for money compared to other ultrabooks; anyway kovir next :p
**\<fluffypony>** Pro Retina is great, although I've switched my Purism Librem 13 + Qubes for anything remotely sensitive
**\<antanst1>** Hackintosh user here :-) It's pretty easy to install OSX if you choose hardware carefully.
**\<antanst1>** works pretty much perfectly.
**\<othe>** correct, also run a hackintosh desktop
**\<ArticMine>** I see the software not the hardware as the issue with Mac
**\<meeting-bot> * anonimal** has 8 year old hackbook pro running Arch :/
**\<meeting-bot> [anonimal]** Still alive, surprisingly.
**\<fluffypony>** nice
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