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Logs for the Kovri and Dev meetings held on 2016-06-25
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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Kovri Dev Meeting Held on 2017-06-25
summary: Brief review of what has been completed since last meeting, creating formalized FFS process, website discussion, 96boards OpenHours showcase, and code & open tickets discussion
tags: [dev diaries, i2p, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*June 25th, 2017*
# Logs
**\<anonimal>** 1. Greetings
**\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\<anonimal>** 3. Status of [96boards.org OpenHours showcase for Kovri / Monero](https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/46)
**\<anonimal>** 4. Contributor FFS check-in / status
**\<anonimal>** 5. Community's progress with addendum / revision to https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/63
**\<anonimal>** 6. Open Meta issue review https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues
**\<anonimal>** 7. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<anonimal>** 8. Any additional meeting items
**\<anonimal>** 9. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<anonimal>** Tick tock, like clock work. Hello :)
**\<sgp>** Hey!
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Hi
**\<rehrar>** yo yo
**\<anonimal>** 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
**\* anonimal** typing
**\<anonimal>** For me: PR review/development + collaboration across various repos, kovri-site collab, code collab with MoroccanMalinois, finished up VRP's for all monero subprojects.
**\<anonimal>** 5th tranche completed http://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/86967/anonimal-s-kovri-full-time-development-funding-thread?page=&noscroll=1#post-91187
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois rehrar: any words for the brief review?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Still digging in my private testnet
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** It's getting better, one mini baby step at a time
**\<anonimal>** Awesome
**\<rehrar>** hold up, sorry
**\<anonimal>** Sidenote: I just now realized that our previous meeting was *two* weeks ago and not a week ago... My forum post also covers the work done between our last meeting and now.
**\<rehrar>** I'm literally with endogenic right now, he's in my houes
**\<anonimal>** Hi endogenic
**\<rehrar>** brief review for me
**\<endogenic>** lol hi anonimal :)
**\<rehrar>** I finished the Monero website, so we can start identifying features we want ported to the Kovri website
**\<rehrar>** with Monero website mostly done (and hopefully up soon) I will shift focus to Kovri website
**\<rehrar>** so we can start having a discussion in-depth about things we want
**\<rehrar>** I know I mentioned porting the FAQ tech from the Monero website to Kovri and I think it was received ok
**\<anonimal>** Ok. Note: I think we should continue to try and keep as many features/ideas/bugs in the issue tracker.
**\<rehrar>** will do
**\<rehrar>** I'll put my web ideas up there
**\* anonimal** same here
**\<anonimal>** Ok, thanks. Anything else on 2.?
**\<i2p-relay> {-pigeons}** I'm going to talk with anonimal after the meeting about some questions about i2p tunnels and kovri.i2p will be up soon
**\<anonimal>** Excellent :)
**\<anonimal>** 3. Status of [96boards.org OpenHours showcase for Kovri / Monero](https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/46)
**\<anonimal>** It looks like we're officially scheduled for July 20th, 16:00 UTC
**\<anonimal>** I haven't seen the official confirmation email yet, and no word from FP, but I'm suspecting that we'll be go-for-launch.
**\<anonimal>** I'll post details in the open issue as they come.
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on 3.?
**\<sgp>** 90% sure I can make it.
**\<anonimal>** Ok, I hope you'll be able to make it.
**\<anonimal>** For anyone who hasn't seen an episode of openhours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL-NF6S9MM_W1QBjUc2B5Pg502bz7qslxk&v=s3nuVJmf9B0
**\<rehrar>** Can we put item 5 before 4 please? :)
**\<rehrar>** nah never mind forget it
**\<anonimal>** 4. Contributor FFS check-in / status
**\<anonimal>** As I posted above, my 5th tranche was completed several days ago. Started the new tranche with some brief SSU collab with MoroccanMalinois and related work, but was AFK yesterday.
**\<rehrar>** Congratulations anonimal!!
**\<anonimal>** Thanks rehrar.
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois has been pumping out \<insert great adjective here> work since he took over guzzi's unfinished FFS.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** :) thanks
**\<moneromooo>** go go MoroccanMalinois ^\_^
**\<rehrar>** this kid ^^
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois: any thoughts/comments on point 4.?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** Nope. Maybe i should be ready for a milestone in next meeting :)
**\<anonimal>** Awesome, ok.
**\* anonimal** notes 100% fluidity in workflow from MoroccanMalinois. No snags, no conflicts, very helpful code
**\<anonimal>** I don't mean to put you on the spot, I'm just trying to give a sense of your presence IMHO for the log / posterity.
**\<anonimal>** Any other thoughts on 4.?
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** :) thanks. I enjoy how it's going on so far
**\<anonimal>** Good to hear.
**\<anonimal>** 5. Community's progress with addendum / revision to https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/63
**\<rehrar>** I'm on that this week. Tomorrow actually.
**\<rehrar>** I've been writing extensive documentation for the new website, and that's pretty much all done.
**\<rehrar>** So I will be drafting documentation for FFS including terms, formatting, and theory.
**\<rehrar>** I'll update the issue when it's done for review
**\<anonimal>** Interesting. Which repo will you be working in?
**\<rehrar>** Well I plan to have a Forum Funding System section in the User Guides page
**\<rehrar>** http://45.32.161.183/resources/user-guides/
**\<rehrar>** so I thought I'd just put it in there from the get-go, but I can start it off in the meta repo
**\<rehrar>** there's already one in the meta repo
**\<rehrar>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/FFS
**\<rehrar>** So I'll probably start working in there
**\<rehrar>** and then port to the User Guides once it's done
**\<rehrar>** done = approved
**\<anonimal>** Ok. Maybe after that's done, we can remove it from the meta repo to avoid redundancy.
**\<rehrar>** Sounds good.
**\<anonimal>** We'll see how it goes.
**\<rehrar>** I'll use the current one as a base and get into specifics regarding licensing and community expectations
**\<anonimal>** Cool, that all sounds good rehrar. Anyone else on 5.? I have not looked/worked on the document since I created this meeting item.
**\<rehrar>** if there's anything that anyone thinks is important, throw it up on the issue
**\<anonimal>** Moving on, 6. Open Meta issue review https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues
**\* anonimal** was hoping FP was around for #77, #78
**\<rehrar>** Shot a message to FP regarding new Kovri logo, waiting for response
**\<rehrar>** #80
**\<anonimal>** Ok. pigeons rehrar do you know if we own getkovri.net?
**\<rehrar>** I don't. Sec.
**\<anonimal>** FP and I talked about that a looong time ago, not sure if he bought it though.
**\<rehrar>** checking to see if it's taken
**\<moneromooo>** The monero site is getmonero.org, if you're trying for the same template.
**\<rehrar>** we have the .org but he's thinking to get .net and have it redirect to .org
**\<rehrar>** it's available btw, so nobody has it
**\<anonimal>** moneromooo: yep. It was instinct for me to type getkovri.net because of geti2p.net
**\<moneromooo>** Cool. Ignore me then ^\_^
**\<anonimal>** fluffypony ^ getkovri.net?
**\<rehrar>** I'll find a domain name seller and ask them to take Monero
**\<anonimal>** Ok
**\* anonimal** looks through open issues
**\<rehrar>** regarding https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/43 I will be working on an action plan this week
**\<rehrar>** it will probably a Monero and Kovri hybrid
**\<rehrar>** but I'll make specific sections for each
**\<rehrar>** there's tons of fun ideas spinning around in my mind
**\<rehrar>** I'll probably lean towards a Kovri focus since I think it needs more help than Monero
**\<anonimal>** Awesome awesome. I'd love to see what you come up with.
**\<ArticMine>** I would get kovri.org
**\<ArticMine>** before it gets taken
**\<anonimal>** If anyone here gets it now, I'm sure they can be reimbursed.
**\<rehrar>** I'll buy. But are the domains owned by a Monero specific account that I should transfer to?
**\<serhack>** I think I can get getkovri.net
**\<rehrar>** if there isn't would it be wise to have an [email protected] type of email that the domains and other things can be attributed to? or would that be too centralized?
**\<rehrar>** the Core team would have the password to it, ofc. I don't know what the current setup is.
**\* anonimal** shrugs, all out of my jurisdiction, wishing FP was here
**\<anonimal>** luigi1113: do we have a centralized accounts address?
**\<anonimal>** rehrar serhack: if either of you can buy the domain now, that was be exquisite
**\<serhack>** okay
**\<serhack>** let me check
**\* anonimal** stays out of this one
**\<rehrar>** serhack, you can nab them and get reimbursed with Monero, as I know you're trying to get some more (afaik)
**\<rehrar>** both getkovri.net and kovri.org if available
**\<ArticMine>** Just registered kovri.org
**\<anonimal>** ajs: I haven't forgotten about you! https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/27
**\<rehrar>** ArticMine is boss
**\<anonimal>** Thank you ArticMine
**\<Olufunmilayo>** might I suggest also .com so to have all 3 top levels for each domain name? this would aid in preventing someone setting up .com and serving malicious code or ..ect
**\<rehrar>** good point
**\<rehrar>** but I think kovri.com is taken
**\<anonimal>** lol, actual russian kovri
**\<ArticMine>** Yes it is and is used in an unrelated business in Russia
**\<rehrar>** it's a russian rug store
**\<Olufunmilayo>** well where possible that is
**\<rehrar>** I speak Russian
**\<rehrar>** I can reach out to them to see their willingness to sell
**\<serhack>** can you confirm me getkovri.net ?
**\<serhack>** anonimal
**\<rehrar>** ye that's the one
**\<anonimal>** Huh? What do you need from me?
**\<anonimal>** Yes, getkovri.net
**\<serhack>** okay, done
**\<anonimal>** Yay, grazie il mio amico
**\<rehrar>** ok so in Russian Ковер is a rug
**\<serhack>** :) you are trying to speak italian!! :)
**\<rehrar>** and the plural is Ковры
**\<rehrar>** which is Kovri in English
**\<serhack>** there is a free who-is privacy :)
**\<rehrar>** So literally, for the, the site is rugs.com
**\<anonimal>** Ya znaiu, rehrar
**\<rehrar>** which I could imagine is a pretty premium domain for Russia
**\<rehrar>** D:
**\<rehrar>** anonimal: the master of all language
**\<iDunk>** I was wondering about that the other day.
**\<iDunk>** There was an odd "Me too" :)
**\<iDunk>** anonimal starting to deanon? :D
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: maybe they'll be interested in kovri software
**\<serhack>** anonimal: where can I talk with you privatly?
**\<anonimal>** iDunk: ah!
**\<serhack>** irc?
**\<rehrar>** at the very least, we can ask that they accpet Monero
**\<rehrar>** I will purchase their rugs with Monero
**\<anonimal>** serhack: for secure privacy, yes: use OTR on IRC.
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: lol yes do it!
**\<anonimal>** ajs: if you're around, I'll be happy to talk more about #27
**\<rehrar>** serhack, if you need some help putting OTR for IRC I can show what I did
**\<serhack>** rehrar: yeah, I need some help
**\<anonimal>** Thank you for helping, rehrar
**\<rehrar>** alright, no worries man.
**\<rehrar>** no worries other man
**\<anonimal>** rehrar: what do you think of this https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/24
**\<anonimal>** How effective do you think it would be?
**\<rehrar>** I was just looking at that. I know nothing about GNU social
**\<rehrar>** I'll give it some research this week
**\<rehrar>** and I'll get back to you on viability and pros/cons
**\<rehrar>** let's get all the issues closed :D
**\<anonimal>** We had a test run a long while ago. Someone started hosting a test server but then seemed to abandon it. The service didn't catch on for our community but then again I think no one knew about it.
**\<anonimal>** Ok, sounds good.
**\<anonimal>** Any thoughts on #81?
**\<anonimal>** needmultisig90: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/81
**\<anonimal>** Well, we're running out of time. Any other comments/questions about open meta issues?
**\<rehrar>** Nah. Not for now.
**\<anonimal>** 7. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
**\<anonimal>** MoroccanMalinois and I started a discussion around 01:00 UTC Saturday. I think we can continue anytime after the meeting.
**\<anonimal>** Anything else on 7.?
**\<anonimal>** 8. Any additional meeting items
**\<anonimal>** rbrunner will be working on some new windows installers. I'm very happy to hear this :)
**\<rbrunner>** Thanks :)
**\<rehrar>** Woo!
**\<rbrunner>** My little contribution to the revolution
**\<anonimal>** I'll respond to your message a.s.a.p, rbrunner, then I think the rest will be straightforward.
**\<rbrunner>** By mail?
**\<anonimal>** Hehe, a very welcome contribution.
**\<anonimal>** Sure, just to keep continuity. Then more IRC if you're comfortable with that.
**\<rbrunner>** Ok.
**\<anonimal>** Any other meeting items from anyone?
**\<anonimal>** 9. Confirm next meeting date/time
**\<anonimal>** Two weeks, same time?
**\<rehrar>** No
**\<rehrar>** Jk yes.
**\<MoroccanMalinois>** lol
**\<anonimal>** haha
**\<anonimal>** Ok, thanks everyone. :)
**\<anonimal>** Fruitful meeting. I could taste the nectar.
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---
layout: post
title: Overview and Logs for the Dev Meeting Held on 2017-06-25
summary: MyMonero/OpenMonero lightwallet support for the GUI, multisig, subaddresses, 0MQ, increasing default ring size
tags: [dev diaries, core, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*June 25th, 2017*
# Overview
An overview [can be found on MoneroBase](https://monerobase.com/wiki/DevMeeting_2017-06-25).
# Logs
**\<tewinget>** I know it's a bit out of order, but I can go ahead and share what updates I have while we wait for fluffy.
**\<moneromooo>** please do :)
**\<tewinget>** I'm pretty knackered, so I'm afraid I won't have much useful input on the other topics anyway
**\<tewinget>** alright, so apart from a couple minor tweaks I still plan to do (but which are by no means necessary I think), the daemon zmq rpc server should be ready to merge pending approval. There are a few things I'd do differently were I to start again from scratch, and may go back and change later, but it's in pretty decent shape overall I think. Still a good handful of unimplemented calls, but they're mostly fill-in-the-blank and low priority imo
**\<endogenic>** nice
**\<tewinget>** the wallet zmq rpc client (well, not explicitly wallet-only, but for the wallet) is coming along, but not quite to that same point.
**\<vtnerd>** yeah I had some comments about the design at some point, but I think it something that could be discussed later
**\<vtnerd>** plus moo may have disliked my C++ suggestions (for a good reason)
**\<tewinget>** as far as I can tell, I'll be able to get what I set out to finish finished by the end of the month as planned.
**\<vtnerd>** so the first cut should be able to push out when a new block is received ?
**\<tewinget>** vtnerd: yeah, some of your suggestions are the things I considered doing differently, but the amount of re-doing didn't seem to be worth it short term.
**\<pero>** im a bit concerned that there has been no new code merged and leaves us with potential for another month or so turnaround on the next iteration
**\<tewinget>** so {block,tx}notify is something I'd like to have a prototype of working by end of month, but I don't think I'll have a polished solution quite then. First week of July though.
**\<vtnerd>** you did merge my one PR, right? it cut down on some boilerplate type specifying ...
**\<tewinget>** pero: check again ;)
**\<tewinget>** hadn't pushed stuff up yet because I had to do an annoying rebase
**\<knaccc>** does zmq result in initial daemon sync speedup at all? or is it mainly for robustness
**\<tewinget>** vtnerd: I believe so
**\<vtnerd>** ok, I will follow that closely, because it matters for the mymonero backend
**\<vtnerd>** or rather it helps the mymonero backend
**\<medusa>** how is that progressing vtnerd ?
**\<medusa>** we talk sometimes about it, since the GUi now run on android with lightwallet support, but the mymonero node tis the only node we can connect (for now)
**\<tewinget>** I'll update here again some time Tuesday, by then I think I can have the wallet client stuff in good shape, giving me the rest of the week to work on notify stuffs.
**\<vtnerd>** your question is too open-ended - what exactly on the backend did you hope to hear about?
**\<pero>** well i dont really know what im looking for but i see some commits from may7 have been added
**\<tewinget>** lemme look and make sure I pushed pero
**\<dternyak>** you did - github just says may 7 cause its the oldest of your new commits
**\<medusa>** whats the overall state ? is it soon finish, just started
**\<dternyak>** the newest is from 1 hour ago
**\<vtnerd>** I've got a written but not completely tested method for rapid tx querying via lmdb (instead of the mysql), and a re-worked algorithm that needs polishing to reduce write blocking on mysql (faster importing)
**\<dternyak>** that for mymonero vtnerd?
**\<vtnerd>** the x86 ASM (assembly wallet importing) is now live for about a month I think
**\<pero>** ok so thats new stuff that can be reviewed?
**\<vtnerd>** none of this has been pushed to mainline
**\<medusa>** cool. cant wairt to run it myself
**\<Jaquee>** vtnerd: i think medusa was referring to the updates in monero daemon.
**\<vtnerd>** the x86 ASM stuff is closest, but I wanted to confirm that it was public domain code
**\<Jaquee>** but afaik that work hasn't been started yet?
**\<tewinget>** pero: yeah. also, weird that the commits I had to touch up for rebase didn't get new timestamps...
**\<vtnerd>** right, the biggie is that I did part 2 of fireice-uk FFS for the mymonero backend
**\<Jaquee>** so openmonero will be the other option
**\<Jaquee>** vtnerd: nice!
**\<vtnerd>** or maybe it was part 1, I forget which. either it has been live (fluffypony would have to confirm)
**\<vtnerd>** it doesn
**\<vtnerd>** doesnt touch the existing crypto code, its all cmake magic (sorry hyc/moo) so its just a matter of some polish and reviewing licensing
**\<vtnerd>** theres lots more speed improvements that can be done, but it will be interesting to get feedback from people first
**\<vtnerd>** ric also discussed with me ways to open source the backend, but its probably a reworking that will get open sourced, not the current version
**\<vtnerd>** somehow the mysql dependency will have to be punted before merging into mainline
**\<vtnerd>** sorry for hijacing this tewinget
**\<tewinget>** vtnerd: no worries, I was pretty well finished anyway :)
**\<tewinget>** just hanging around to answer any questions for a bit longer before I go pass out
**\<vtnerd>** I mean right now my main concerns are performance and better mempool integration on the backend (not necessarily merging into mainline)
**\<medusa>** mhm
**\<vtnerd>** so that anyone using the newer UI stuff with the backend should have a better experience (hopefully)
**\<moneromooo>** Jaquee: do you want to tell us about your work ?
**\<moneromooo>** Well, then. Anyone else doing interesting stuff who want to let us know ? :)
**\<Jaquee>** sure. i've been working on adding lightwallet support to GUI. There are two PR's up already that will need some more work before they can be merged
**\<moneromooo>** Sorry.
**\<Jaquee>** i've also been working on the android and ios builds simultaneously
**\<medusa>** also Jaquee fixed the nasty ominous "black screen" bug in the gui
**\<Jaquee>** yeah. that too
**\<vtnerd>** lightwallet == GUI that uses openmonero/mymonero backend ?
**\<medusa>** yes
**\<Jaquee>** exactly
**\<medusa>** thats why i asked
**\<medusa>** its all ready, owrks like a charm
**\<medusa>** soon\*
**\<Jaquee>** :)
**\<pigeons>** i wonder what kind of load that puts on the remote load per user
**\<pigeons>** \*remote node
**\<pero>** tewinget: communication has been one of the fails here i believe so it would be helpful if you could add some note in the PR wrt progress and if there's anything someone can do now
**\<tewinget>** pero: I can do that, sure.
**\<vtnerd>** pigeons: thats what Im trying to improve
**\<Jaquee>** pigeons: the lightwallet use mymonero/openmonero backend, not regular remote nodes (yet)
**\<Jaquee>** and btw. my ffs has come to an end. Thanks for all contributions!
**\<vtnerd>** yeah so eventually the pie-in-the-sky approach is a kovri pubkey that your phone connects to ?
**\<medusa>** \<3
**\<pigeons>** yes i mean on those mymonero/openmonero nodes
**\<Jaquee>** i'll probably put up another ffs soon
**\<unknownids>** wooo
**\<binaryFate>** Jaquee dooooo it!
**\<unknownids>** hope ya go
**\<unknownids>** do\*
**\<unknownids>** oh god
**\<vtnerd>** pigeons: ideally people would be running these nodes only for a few people that know personally (IMO)
**\<unknownids>** :(
**\<pigeons>** vtnerd: yep. if the only node that people can connect to is mymonero, they will quickly kill it
**\<medusa>** for now it is, but mymoner still charges a fee. without paying, so scanning
**\<vtnerd>** come on pigeons, gotta have some "swag" ... mymonero can handle the load
**\<Jaquee>** :D
**\<pero>** thanks tewinget
**\<endogenic>** vtnerd++
**\<moneromooo>** Well, as for me, I added some fuzz testing. Turns out erikd had also started looking at that as well.
**\<moneromooo>** It's running on GCC, not CLANG, though.
**\<moneromooo>** Anyone else ?
**\<knaccc>** kenshi84 has done fantastic work on implementing the subaddress scheme. There is now the concept of a wallet containing multiple "accounts", each with multiple "addresses" (a.k.a. subaddresses). It's now only a cat's whisker away from being ready for code review. https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/2056
**\<moneromooo>** Very nice stuff ^\_^
**\<medusa>** cool
**\<Jaquee>** ^^
**\<medusa>** how about release ? dont we need to do a testnet fork in advance ?
**\<medusa>** dou you guys have a rough timeline in mind ?
**\<knaccc>** subaddresses are a wallet only change
**\<moneromooo>** For subaddresses, I don't think we'd need to.
**\<sgp>** Just joining now. Thanks Jaquee and kenshi84 (and others of course)
**\<medusa>** no i mean in general
**\<medusa>** september fork is not far away
**\<medusa>** when do we release ?
**\<moneromooo>** Well, the only thing we'd need we don't have yet is the smaller range proofs, but I think we're kinda screwed now.
**\<moneromooo>** All the rest is active on testnet I think.
**\<knaccc>** why screwed? it's too late for the range proof reduction to make it into the september fork?
**\<moneromooo>** Seems so.
**\<ArticMine>** That was my question also
**\<moneromooo>** Ah, there was also a question of whether to bump minimum mixin higher than was planned.
**\<moneromooo>** It was supposed to go from 2 to 4.
**\<binaryFate>** who's working on range proof reduction?
**\<knaccc>** luigi
**\<ArticMine>** So we are looking at 2018 for the smaller range proofs?
**\* moneromooo** apologizes for having mugged luigi for multisig help
**\<medusa>** whats exactly the issue ? too little time for now?
**\<knaccc>** to be fair, it's not the kind of thing that any mistakes can be afforded to be made with
**\<medusa>** he should just stop watching charts all day ^^
**\<moneromooo>** Was there anything else than smaller range proofs, 2-\>4 min mixin, and mandatory rct for next fork ?
**\<knaccc>** something has to happen to get some consensus on the mandatory ring size change
**\<pero>** there isnt consensus?
**\<knaccc>** i've suggested 20, surae said he doesn't have a problem with that, but not much other commentary.
**\<moneromooo>** I've not seen olarks for a while. Anyone has ?
**\<knaccc>** the thread went dead https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/1673
**\<pero>** maybe we should schedule a townhall type irc meeting
**\<pero>** instead of intermittent back and forth in the ticket
**\<knaccc>** other people just need to make their opinions known, not that many people have done so
**\<medusa>** i cant judge waht the min mixing should be, but would like to see the pole that can judge it discuss it ofc
**\<pero>** ^
**\<medusa>** so i trust the experts
**\<moneromooo>** Anyone else wants to say anything ?
**\<medusa>** i think the miimum mixing is an important question. i cant help u guys discuss it
**\<knaccc>** 2017-06-23 12:54:59 surae well, if raising the ring size from 3 to 20 results in 15% larger transactions, i have *no* problem endorsing increased minimum mix-ins *even without* taking churning into account. i've advocated that since the chain reaction paper, but lacking a specific attack vector, it was hard to justify the cost...
**\<medusa>** but it shouldnt be done last minute
**\<medusa>** now is the time
**\<sgp>** I think most people including me are ok with any reasonable number \>10
**\<moneromooo>** 15% means \~30% once we have the smaller range proofs.
**\<knaccc>** moneromooo true. it's the price to get privacy in the E-\>A-\>B-\>E scenario unfortunately, in my opinion.
**\<iDunk>** Why don't we just ban Eve and be done with it?
**\<knaccc>** because it's how users make purchases while avoiding XMR/local currency exchange rate risk
**\<knaccc>** which according to a particular vendor that posted on reddit was the almost exclusive pattern of behaviour of his clients
**\<knaccc>** what i posted above btw was surae's comment, not my comment to surae
**\<iDunk>** Which you probably solicited?
**\<knaccc>** rubber hosed.
**\<medusa>** ok guys, is that it ?
**\<knaccc>** the premise is that my simulation shows that an EABE attack can only be mitigated if the anonymity set can reach 80,000 inputs. And that's not possible without intermediate transactions, and it'd take excessive intermediate transactions to achieve this unless the mandatory ring size is much higher than it currently is
**\<knaccc>** it's a long github thread, I'll leave you all to read it at your collective leisure :)
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_posts/2017-07-02-logs-for-the-Community-meeting-held-on-2017-07-02.md 0 → 100644
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---
layout: post
title: Logs for the Community Meeting Held on 2017-07-02
summary: Official website, marketing / social media, slogan, Kovri, and miscellaneous
tags: [community, crypto]
author: dEBRUYNE / fluffypony
---
*July 2nd, 2017*
# Logs
**\<rehrar>** Alright, does everyone have their shrimp tacos?
**\<rehrar>** Introduction Greetings Marketing discussion Monero site - final thoughts Updating social media pages Monero slogan Community Q&A: forced discussion by topic
**\<rehrar>** a. GUI/CLI
**\<rehrar>** b. Kovri
**\<rehrar>** c. Recent developments
**\<rehrar>** d. Roadmap Confirm next meeting date/time Conclusion
**\<rehrar>** oops fail
**\<rehrar>** https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/82
**\<rehrar>** here is the agenda for today
**\<rehrar>** it's 12:30 so we can go ahead and get started
**\<rehrar>** 0. Introductions
**\<ArticMine>** Hi
**\<serhack>** Hello
**\<rehrar>** Heyo
**\<rbrunner>** Jo
**\<hyc>** once upon a time
**\<quickbasic>** Yes?
**\<erg1>** hi. is that an introduction?
**\<rehrar>** it's basically a role call :P
**\<xmrscott>** Howdy howdy
**\<tficharmers>** exciting! more rooms :D
**\<quickbasic>** It was a dark and stormy night.
**\<CryptoSiD>** is this channel a safe space for liberals
**\<CryptoSiD>** :D
**\<rehrar>** Ok, pero has suggested we shuffle some things around cuz he has to go soon
**\<rehrar>** So we're going to start with 3. Monero site - final thoughts
**\<serhack>** Okay
**\<rehrar>** for those who don't know, here is the link to the test server: http://45.32.161.183/
**\<serhack>** First of all: I can tell that rehrar have done a good job!
**\<rehrar>** I am the designer and creator of the site, so feel free to ask me any questions.
**\<CryptoSiD>** the website is pretty c00l
**\<CryptoSiD>** i like it
**\<rehrar>** Honestly, it's pretty much ready to rumble at this point. Will probably be submitting the PR today.
**\<shillosopher>** looks good, imo
**\<hyc>** front text definitely is nicerthan the last time I looked
**\<rehrar>** Any comments, criticisms, complaints, or other? :)
**\<serhack>** will website be multilingual rehrar?
**\<rehrar>** that...will take some doing. :P But there are plans in the future for that, yes.
**\<pero>** good enough for launch my only thing is that there's too much text everywhere
**\<pero>** someone needs to go town with the delete key
**\<quickbasic>** Site looks good, but I still think we need more people going over the text on it and rewriting sections of text that are written poorly.
**\<knaccc>** rehrar graphics on the front page are a huge imprivement :)
**\<pero>** but i never really considered content as a major part of the scope for this project
**\<nioc>** lol
**\<hyc>** right, I thought the project was about doing the framework/layout
**\<pero>** figured the community will take care of that after
**\<hyc>** text and content is for another effort
**\<quickbasic>** Yes yes. Off.
**\<quickbasic>** Ofc
**\<rbrunner>** Only a very small thing: The "drop-down" triangles e.g. to the right of "Get Started" are rather small
**\<rehrar>** knaccc's suggested content has been placed here: http://45.32.161.183/get-started/what-is-monero/
**\<tficharmers>** I think it's a great. Much improvements. I'd say just get it out there and people will say words and things will get done.
**\<xmrscott>** One quick note on translations before they get started....would it be possible to use Transifex?
**\<pero>** yea that page is pretty solid now
**\<rehrar>** the other issue that ArticMine had brought up is the lack of tech talk so to speak on the site
**\<ArticMine>** The process for contributing content has been created and document. This is a lot of hard work and huge improvement
**\<CryptoSiD>** something very important is missing from the GUI wallet (windows)
**\<pero>** was really the weak point of the site before - it's essentially the 2nd most important page
**\<rehrar>** so I have plans for a Coin specs page as well as a 'How it works' (privacy) page
**\<CryptoSiD>** TRAY. i love tray
**\<pero>** and yea we need some nitty gritty tech shit somewhere
**\<ArticMine>** So one can contribute the tech talk
**\<rehrar>** anyone who wants to contribute to the site can find instructions to do so here: https://github.com/rehrar/monero-site-framework/blob/master/website-documentation.md
**\<hyc>** rbrunner: good point. if they could be a bit larger, wouldn't hurt.
**\<rehrar>** they are very thorough, and cover how to do most of the things that a regular contribute will want to do
**\<ArticMine>** ^ That is my point
**\<hyc>** otherwise, sounds like we can call this phase Done and move on.
**\<rehrar>** ok, any other discussion points?
**\<serhack>** rehrar: about merchants
**\<rehrar>** the only other thing is the redone FFS
**\<rehrar>** it's about 80% complete and will be finished post-launch
**\<rehrar>** for now the link will lead to the old FFS
**\<rbrunner>** Without forum, is it still the FFS?
**\<knaccc>** rehrar on the front page, s/hae/have
**\<rehrar>** just waiting on FP for a couple of things
**\<rehrar>** got it, thanks knaccc
**\<rehrar>** serhack, what's your comment? :)
**\<serhack>** can you write a few words about guidelines?
**\<CryptoSiD>** rehrar suggestion for the website, a "dark" version
**\<serhack>** we can't post merchants that sell drugs
**\<ArticMine>** We can go as is then then use the process to add a lot more content
**\<hyc>** oh hey. MoneroDirect should read "(non-US only)" - it is not Euro only.
**\<netg>** what site are you talking about?
**\<ArticMine>** Change can be proposed vis the pr process
**\<CryptoSiD>** http://45.32.161.183/get-started/what-is-monero/
**\<hyc>** cool
**\<CryptoSiD>** this netg
**\<rehrar>** well hyc, with the new documentation, you can submit a PR to change it :D
**\<hyc>** willdo
**\<rehrar>** but I can do it too :P
**\<rehrar>** CryptoSiD: dark version?
**\<rehrar>** like...the website has a dark color scheme?
**\<netg>** going to be getmonero.org later?
**\<pero>** id also like to flag this
**\<pero>** https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/290
**\<CryptoSiD>** yeah exactly
**\<rehrar>** yes netg
**\<pero>** need someone to do that server-side most likely
**\<pero>** maybe that falls on pigeons? not sure?
**\<rehrar>** ye. very important pero. Thanks. Not sure who handles the servers themselves.
**\<rehrar>** CryptoSiD: possible, but impractical imo
**\<hyc>** perhaps someone can post a catalog of existing pages vs new pages onto that ticket
**\<pigeons>** No I don't work with getmonero.org so far
**\<pero>** it might be possible to just put empty pages with meta refresh tags on old urls, pointing to new urls
**\<rehrar>** this can be discussed further down the road (dark theme)
**\<pero>** but idk im not that hands on usually
**\<knaccc>** rehrar you know that on the front page where it says 'which you can read about here', there is no link?
**\<sgp>** Here now!
**\<rehrar>** yes, I know. I will be writing things today and tomorrow.
**\<CryptoSiD>** yeah it's sure not a priority but im pretty sure lots of people would like a dark version of the website
**\<CryptoSiD>** kinda like poloniex
**\<ArticMine>** Yes this is very important to preserve link integrity
**\<rehrar>** keep all the SEOs
**\<rehrar>** ok, any final thoughts?
**\<rbrunner>** Will somebody watch the site through Google webmaster tools?
**\<netg>** if it is a serious project, i can provide a good/semi-good monero domain
**\<serhack>** rehrar: did you see my comment? :)
**\<pero>** idk how much 'seo' we actually need
**\<rehrar>** about merchant guidelines?
**\<pero>** the site will have lots of organic links to it
**\<erg1>** I like dark themes too, but I think they are mostly for sites where users will be staring at the screen for hours (to reduce eye strain)
**\<netg>** i own xmr.biz monero.pro xmr.su monero.su
**\<serhack>** yeah rehrar
**\<netg>** e.g.
**\<rehrar>** not sure it's super necessary at this point. We can hit it if we have to, but I don't see a need atm.
**\<CryptoSiD>** erg1 good point.
**\<pero>** perhaps for keywords such as 'anonymous cryptocurrency' and stuff some seo content might be prudent
**\<pero>** if desired
**\<rehrar>** netg: it will become getmonero.org
**\<netg>** ok
**\<serhack>** okay rehrar :)
**\<pero>** but for 'monero' it should be #1 automagically
**\<hyc>** then github needs a dark theme :P
**\<rehrar>** alright
**\<rehrar>** next up
**\<netg>** dark wrapper maybe
**\<netg>** :o
**\<ArticMine>** With the amount of text on the site SEO is a non issue
**\<rehrar>** Oh shoot. 1. was greetings
**\<pero>** yea i think the backlinks will take care of the seo
**\<rehrar>** 2. Marketing discussion
**\<pero>** google picks up on things like context
**\<pero>** if a page links to the site next to words 'anonymous crypto'
**\<pero>** it'll rank the site for 'anon crypto'
**\<rehrar>** sgp, now that you're here, is there anything you had in mind for this point?
**\<hyc>** so really we just need to spread more links on other popular sites
**\<ArticMine>** Yes but Google will penalize manipulation
**\<pero>** well i was saying organically
**\<sgp>** Sure, if you want I can take it from here
**\<ArticMine>** I would focus on god content and let Google do its thing
**\<pero>** yea
**\<netg>** +100
**\<sgp>** Last meeting, we discussed the transition of Monero Marketing to Monero Community, and it was met with general agreement. The logic is that most interested people want to spend time working on improving Monero, and only a few are primarily interested in marketing. In the past, the project received criticism from many Monero community members who are against marketing.
**\<rehrar>** you can take this point, we'll see how things continue :)
**\<sgp>** Some people have since voiced their concerns that the marketing project is being closed until further notice. They feel that marketing should live alongside community. I personally feel that the community involved only in marketing is too small, and those interested in marketing will be welcomed to share their ideas on Monero Community. However, if there are enough people interested in a separate marketing community, please express your
interest below. If it is strong enough, we may develop both communities simultaneously.
**\<serhack>** https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=monero
**\<pero>** there might be a seo arms race vs other shitcoins but odds are we just wont win that anyway if they decide to spend $ manipulating
**\<serhack>** ^^ useful link
**\<netg>** and unique content, which differs to other coins
**\<ArticMine>** Community drives marketing in my opinion
**\<netg>** no to generic stuff
**\<serhack>** and http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/getmonero.org#trafficstats
**\<sgp>** Let's move the discussion to #2 for now. We can talk about the other stuff later if there is time
**\<rehrar>** Well from my understanding, we're going to be moving to a work-group oriented approach. Where there are different work groups for different aspects of Monero.
**\<netg>** like we had 2 years ago
**\<sgp>** I know fluffypony is in favor of keeping Monero Marketing separate. Does anyone have any strong opinions either way on this?
**\<netg>** hhe
**\<hyc>** makes sense to me for marketing to be closely integrated with community
**\<rehrar>** Development is obviously one, Community is another, Marketing can be another, and even third-party development can be separate if we wanted
**\<ArticMine>** Marketing is secondary to community
**\<serhack>** articMine: +1
**\<rehrar>** not quite sure of th details, but it makes it easier for people who want to get involved to identify workgroups that they want to be involved in
**\<erg1>** Not to be pedantic, but I wish people would stop treating "marketing" as a synonym for promotion or evangelism. Marketing is a much broader concept of fostering a thriving ecosystem. Of course, spreading the good word is a very important part.
**\<ArticMine>** If one has community one has the best free marketing
**\<quickbasic>** Community is more important than marketing... A strong community will market itself organically.
**\<netg>** erg1: +10
**\<hyc>** fair enough. then I don't know what the distinction is btw Community and Marketing in our context.
**\<rehrar>** while I understand and agree to a point with what ArticMine and quickbasic are saying, I think there is a place for focused effort to go into making quality Monero content
**\<pigeons>** Even though I understand the broader and more benign definition of marketing, i worry about having a focus on that and the type of participants it attracts
**\<sgp>** @hyc for now with the current community size, I expect them to all fit nicely in one subreddit/channel at the moment
**\<rehrar>** may I give an example that I had given previously in markets about what strong marketing can be?
**\<hyc>** sgp: that's kinda what I thought
**\<ArticMine>** If we focus on community we will get the best markeing
**\<serhack>** I think we should spread monero as money like "Accept payment with monero" or something like this.
**\<rehrar>** Imagine a video that is made. Format doesn't matter. Graphics like Savandra or a talking head or whatever. Talking about privacy, why it's important, and the issues we face today that are privacy oriented. We don't even have to mention Monero. It's just privacy education.
**\<erg1>** pigeons: yes, I agree. My problem with "marketers" (promoters) is motivation. Typically they only want to pump the price. Far different than spreading the word on improving people's lives.
**\<ArticMine>** Those kind of things can be irritating
**\<rehrar>** At the very end, we have the Monero logo animation thing for three seconds.
**\<quickbasic>** @rehrar I agree that there should be focused content with the purpose of marketing, but I believe it happens as result of leave communities.
**\<rehrar>** The end. Marketing can be educational in nature, but still come from us.
**\<quickbasic>** \*large
**\<netg>** dont give marketing/promotion-work to new/extern people
**\<pigeons>** building good software and community and ecosystem is a much higher priority than awareness and users in these stages when things are still in heavy development