help ofrnxmr take over the world
Welcome ladies and gentleman! I'll be your host this evening. I go by a couple of names.. People call me a lot of things, some of them to my face! But usually, they call me: ofrnxmr.
Historically I have tried to remain selfless, covering my Monero-related expenses out-of-pocket. Over the past couple of years, I've survived almost entirely on donations received via the #monero-support matrix channel.
My proposal may seem a bit out of the ordinary. This can be attributed to the fact that I am ofrnxmr and I'm not ordinary. A standard proposal wouldnt make much sense.
While there are a few items on the list of things I'd like to get done, this proposal is intended to lean towards my work being largely without specific targets. This is a generic proposal, unrelated to any specific commitments such as my work with, example, BasicSwapDEX
Update 1: [April 12, 2024] Addressing Comments - "Drop all described roles":
- I shall continue to focus and improve upon past actions / roles
- My intent is to continue as always
- As such, extracurricular activites not listed here will continue/expand accordingly
- I am explicitly requesting donations for my existence, and not "payment" for milestones.
Rest assured that none of these changes should be misconstrued to imply that less is on the table now vs the OG wording.
Terms:
- 12 Months @ 208 XMR
Rate:
- 1 XMR = 1 XMR
Update 2: [April 12, 2024] Addressing Comments - "Split payments":
Payout structure:
- 100% paid at the time of funding.
Payout schedule:
- M0 = 100% at time of funding
As per the rules: If funding goal (100%) is not reached, I reserve the right to request pay in (min) 25% chunks once every 4 weeks.
Merge request reports
Activity
added 1 commit
- 05443d83 - copy/pasted instead of using git, and dropped the .md
I agree with Ofnrxmr, he has helped the Monero Project and the Monero community many times and loves Monero. I don't think he has a bad intention, the only downside is that he uses some rough language. Apart from that, he contributes a lot to the Monero community. BUT, the amount is so much for nothing promised.
Edited by detheSite maintainer was ~51xmr/3months
were already saving 200+xmr/yr by switching from "erc" to "getting a lot more work done".
this ccs includes much more than was on the table for site, not to mention site has a lot more activity due to the change in direction. I plan to help plowsof with site and agreed to manage new monero-docs repo a while ago.
i could have opened "just docs" at 200xmr/yr. But i decided that docs would be a free bonus, as i prefer to not take the credit and not have merge powers.
im asking for minimum wage
@detheforxmr @detherminal how many accts are you going to vote from?
Edited by ofrnxmr
No milestones, no accountability, no deliverables = no merge.
This is essentially "I've helped around a lot now pay me."
The upfront payment for a promise of future services goes against what the CCS is all about, ofrnxmr can use personal donation address for that.
Funding this will set a bad precedent and will be a slight against those who help monero on their own time, for free.
Reject.
No milestones, no accountability, no deliverables = no merge.
I, ofrnxmr, am the deliverable. Re accountability - we have plenty of ccs who have a negative ROI. This is not one of them. My prior relations and collaborations should speak for themself.
This is essentially "I've helped around a lot now pay me."
Funding this will set a bad precedent
Funding it will? Now that doesnt make any sense, jojo. You don't have to donate, and funding is up to the donors to set precedent to say what ofrnxmr is worth.
perhaps you said "funding" when you meant "merging". Funding precedent has been set. Community members have been unofficially funding me for years.
will be a slight against those who help monero on their own time, for free.
- Gathering funds to financially support other contributors, both volunteer and crowdfunding initiatives.
you seem to be of the opinion that contributors should have to be volunteers. This ccs intends to change that insane perspective.
Considering you're a dev who did (unpaid?) work for anonero, and is currently trying to collect a bounty for monerujo's background sync (and recharging each wallet dev to redo the work), im left confused about what your issue is with being paid to work?
- Are you doing the bounties for free?
- If you did not get paid by anonero, do you think that is OK? And as a result, youre doing 1?
btw, i raised 10200Particl and 8200wownero, without going through any ccs like system (raised on twitter in ~72hrs). I have a donation addresses posted, and (until the new year) received donations regularly.
I do a lot more in monero than i do in other communities, have for years, and intend to continue to do so.. only difference is that the funding via ccs allows my biggest supporters (the same people donating 200-400k at a time) to support me in an official manner.
Edited by ofrnxmrI just skimmed this briefly and I still stand by my points.
BTW I never did any Anonero dev work so I don't know what you're talking about.
And "recharging each wallet dev to redo the work" just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
Re: paid work, you're asking for money upfront - how is that comparable to a bounty system or any other paid work (or CCS for that matter)?
Set up a series of milestones/checklist that you want to be paid for like everyone else, simply saying "I am ofrnxmr" and speaking about yourself in 3rd person isn't enough.
I vote no.
Edited by J0J0XMRRe anonero work
tfw not mentioning j0j0 and me as contributors :( - cyjan
No worries here, just glad to help out. - j0j0
was someone elses comments
re "recharging", are you doing the cake implementation? (dont bother to answer. Not trying to argue unrelated stuff).
paid work, you're asking for money upfront - how is that comparable to a bounty system or any other paid work (or CCS for that matter)?
There have been plenty of ccs that were paid upfront, and actually intended to deliver nothing. Now, unless its your first day on earth, there are a lot of professions where you pay first... Like, flipping burgers. mcdonalds doesn't have employees put burgers on the grill until the customer pays. The burger flipper is getting paid before he starts flipping burgers too. i dont know many webdevs that work first, get paid later either. You pay first.
Set up a series of milestones/checklist that you want to be paid for like everyone else
Again, a lot of ccs' dont have clear deliverables, but mine are very clear.
The very first "include" is monero support. Another is the docs repo. Another is collaborating with devs (which is often a big chunk of my day). Another is raising funds for those who do not have the ability to raise funds.
re Deliverables: Im not a creator, i help finish the job. The completed projects are not mine to take credit for. Deliverables? I plan to get the job done, whatever the job may be.
Old site coordinator was paid 51xmr /3months (similar rate im asking, only up front because it makes 0 difference to the wallet and a large difference to my ability fo use the funds for the greater good), but has site coordinstor has no deliverables, had downed tools, and left issues open for yrs. Same person also had the haveno ccs with milestone 0 paid upfront, and never delivered anything.
or that scam movie CCS "feat monero" (but doesnt feat monero) that wanted 12k upfront ? unlike these (merged and paid ccs), my ccs has a positive roi.
simply saying "I am ofrnxmr" and speaking about yourself in 3rd person isn't enough.
Thats not third person.. :joy:facepalm
Re: Nonsense points about paid work
Anonero: I just let them they could update using same lib as XMRUW, no work/coding involved.. can hardly call that "work".
"Recharging for work": If you think coding up a feature for 1 wallet means you can just add it to other wallets, you are simply clueless.
Re: CCS proposal
Actual contributors like seltsa, jberman, jeffro256, etc have clear milestones in their proposals that are paid out every X amount of time. You just decided because you "are ofrnxmr" you get to be paid the entire lumpsum BEFORE doing any work.
You are not special or more important than the actual people working on monero, and you are expected to follow the same process as them.
Just because other CCSs failed doesn't mean you can just ask for a payday up front.
So, again, clear milestones and goals or its a No from me.
Edited by J0J0XMR
The "Join Core" line of the proposal is not directly related to the CCS. It is added here as this is the most transparent way to go about it.
Core is invite-only. Normally, the topic is not subject to community knowledge or approval. I'd prefer to do things in the open.
Regarding security etc. I'd prefer if persons would ask questions before making assumptions. My role in core would not be paid and would not put me in control of anything that i wouldn't otherwise have access to. I'm not looking for merge powers, to sign binaries, to deploy the website, etc.
Between fluffy's intended resignation, binaryFates inconsistent availability, luigi's/ccs hack & response, or articmine's professional nature, core is a shell of its former self with many unaddressed problems, and 0 oversight. My goal here is to have core run more efficiently, not a hostile takeover or a slow kill (which is what seems has been happening for years, and will continues to cause major issues so long as we stay on the current trajectory).
anyway, Join Core is not the focus of the ccs, it is but a public statement (that ultimately could have been kept private). With or without the ccs, the bid remains, and was intended to be put it forward in private long before the CCS hack threw everything into chaos.
tldr: don't be distracted by the core team stuff. It's unrelated to any crowdfunding proposal.
I support this wholeheartedly. When I joined the XMR community a few months ago, each step of the way, ofrn helped me to learn.
I didn't know anything about the cryptocurrency market and community. At each step of the way, he was available and helpful.
So ofrnxmr has my full support regarding this.
i fully support ofrnxmr, monero needs to be represented by honest people with balls that are not afraid to say it like it is, not by people that hide behind pretty words while doing absolutely nothing and getting paid for it
if you're in the latter group consider working for a corpo, monero is not for you
I disagree. I can't ignore language even in good faith. That shows at best immaturity, at worst delusions.
Now on the CCS proposal. I would like to remind that people have been rejected for more serious proposals than this one, accepting it in its current state would be disrespectful for the ones that tried to give themselves to the task.
Despite what I said, I'll try to give decent critics on this one:
Matrix / Monero first point of contact / customer support
We need more precision. What exactly do you wish to change on the Matrix channels.
Continue and expand collaboration with devs, researchers, contributors and community on various features/implementations/projects/issues/exploits to help ensure monero reaches max potential.
How do you plan to execute such ? Do you wish to form a committee ?
Finish cleaning up CCS Hack response (setting up multisig, jetfund, generalfund, etc)
I think this part is controversial and need through explanations of why to do what you plan.
Providing ofrn-oversight to keep low hanging fruit away from bad actors, whether malicious or simply and the like.
Providing ? How ? Over blogs, messages, reddit posts, videos ? ofrn-oversight ? Is it your opinion ? What qualitifcations do you have over topics you plan to oversight ? What do you qualifies of bad actor ? To touch grass even more, do you qualify Cake Wallet as a bad actor, that should at least clarify 30% of the doubts over this CCS.
Gathering funds to financially support other contributors, both volunteer and crowdfunding initiatives.
Monero General Fund exist for this purpose. CCS for community elected work. And sometimes the two are linked together. What additional funds would you like to use for, how would you gather it, and what transparency system do you plan on using ?
I still think you are of good faith, but for me these are blockers for this CCS.
I disagree. I can't ignore language even in good faith. That shows at best immaturity, at worst delusions.
i live in the real world, and have a LOT of high level relations and ive never had to censor or draw back. I'm not an actor. You don't have to like my flavor. Those who pretend to fit your values are putting on show for the audience. I am who i am everywhere, and everywhere i am i prefer to be correct vs politically correct. Which is, in oart, why i am respected. I dont bullshit just to make people feel good.
I would like to remind that people have been rejected for more serious proposals than this one, accepting it in its current state would be disrespectful for the ones that tried to give themselves to the task.
While i disagree, i will say that on that same unrelated topic, there have been much worse ccs' merged and paid out.
I think this part is controversial and need through explanations of why to do what you plan.
maybe you dont remember the timeline, but i lead ccs to restarting prematurely. I coordinated with tobtoht regarding multisig UX. I am coordinating with tecnovert on future solutions. I am in contact with the dev who rewrote the experimental multisig, looking to remove the experimental flag. Luigi was supposed to no longer be sole key older by end of march. Theres been 0 action due to my inaction. tldr^ dyor
How do you plan to execute such ? Do you wish to form a committee ?
no. I already do this with my hands tied behind my back, wearing cement shoes.
Providing ? How ? Over blogs, messages, reddit posts, videos ? ofrn-oversight ? Is it your opinion ? What qualitifcations do you have over topics you plan to oversight ? What do you qualifies of bad actor ? To touch grass even more, do you qualify Cake Wallet as a bad actor, that should at least clarify 30% of the doubts over this CCS.
cake is irresponsible, not a bad actor. Theyve repeatedly fkd up and their ego too big to simply fix issues. They ddosed their own nodes, then added privacy harming features to tell users about it. Ive worked with (not for) cake for years. Vik has always been good, but the development oftend wanders into dangerous territory. Leaving spend keys unlocked, ddosing nodes, potentially infected apks, adding privacy harming features in updates then later making them opt-out. not to mention theyve doxxed a bunch of the dev community offering jobs, without making good on job offers.
My eyes are the best in the business. My aim has been 100% on target when it comes to spotting bullshit. The rest of community tends to get bullied into allowing bad actors to act badly. Just look at msvb's sponsor poaching or xmrscott and sgp mass ban/mute tantrums that even selsta, luigi, rucknium and plowsof cant reverse without scott vetoing them and enforcing his comfort zone on the devs i work with.
Monero General Fund exist for this purpose. CCS for community elected work. And sometimes the two are linked together. What additional funds would you like to use for, how would you gather it, and what transparency system do you plan on using ?
if only. general fund starved devs during ccs hack, and not only did it NOT fund FCMP, FCMP eas given stipulations.
generalfund 1000000% does NOT fund community devs. It barely funds core devs. Its a single signer wallet held by bF, who is kind of ridiculously hard to get a hold of when you need him to even deploy the website to remove moneroaddress.org or binance
generalfund is a money sink and anybody donating there isnt actually supporting devs. Theyre just pumpin bF's wallet.
there are a LOT of unpaid contributors, and none of them can get anything from GF. FCMP couldnt even get GF funding.
Accepting this proposal in this current state (without clear and organized description about the objectives) would be a shame for the CCS and would let me think lowly of this system. Even the title is hard to understand and makes me think it is someone trolling or with too much ego.
Of course if ofrnxmr has been contributing and is efficient enough, it is in the interest of the monero community to fund him so that he wants to continue, but this is not the way to do it.
That is only my opinion.Edited by Cyrix126Even the title is hard to understand and makes me think it is someone trolling or with too much ego.
Monero shouldn't aim any lower than to be legitimized as a real world currency (read: not a niche hobby project). There's nothing egotistical about unapologetically aiming for the pinnacle, or trying to lead us there.
Its utterly pathetic for the goal to be monero as anything less than global legitimacy.
Its sad that ive been silenced in community channels for the entireyy kf 2024. Those who know me, know i dont troll, i get the job done.
And those from the old guard that hope to tear down the works i do, are people who prefer monero remains small enough for their weak selves to still justify a position warming the bench.
without clear and organized description about the objectives)
You doubt me, and it sounds like you also don't believe in monero. Small thinking, small goals, and missing the forest for the trees. I don't have such doubts. I work in and out of monero to bring us there. The goals and objectives are extremely clear, if you erase the doubt in your mind and believe in the project.
Monero isn't a place for people to hide in moms basement and hope for the best, nor is it a project that needs to be cucked into compliance. We also cant larp as if were actually trying, then sit around and pretend like its a problem when the project tries to to grow wings. We cant just talk about the things were should be doing. (hence the core part. Core is supposed to steward us there, but if there is anyone who does not believe in the project, its core (and tickles down to reserved people like you, and straight up parasites who just use (abuse) monero for their own short term gains).
I work in and outside of monero, with real people, real companies, and real politicians, on real adoption. Monero's half assed, laxidasical approach does not trend toward being taken serious by leaders of the the real world, who cannot afford to bring their towns, cities, countries to adopt monero on chain. yes, the proposal is setting precedent to push monero to prominence and to stop treating it like a second rate option.
aka, to walk it like we talk it.
"help a movie (not actually) featuring monero win an oscar" = ego, bullshit, scam, 25k paid for 0 deliverables (playing with words to pretend like there are deliverables).
if i was to word this ccs similarly, id say "milestone 1, send me half to buy myself a new car #featuringmonero. After i get the new car, pay out the other half"
in stark contrast: Monero becoming a worldwide recognized currency isn't only realistic, it was always supposed to be THE goal. And yes, i, ofrnxmr, have always worked to set the board so we can do such a thing. Monero is an important tool, if it can be made to be taken seriously. If monero community doesn't believe in it, why should any major world power?
it is in the interest of the monero community to fund him so that he wants to continue, but this is not the way to do it.
If were talking about "aim low", sure. But i am not aiming low.
core team are supposed to act as stewards. Can you tell me where they've been leading us since fluffy's arrest?
were off track. We've lost the trajectory. Whether core wants to disband or continue, neither core nor the community has the heart to stand up and finish the job.
Edited by ofrnxmrYou doubt me
You are asking for money, I prefer knowing and be capable of measuring what you want to give the community in return.
You said in your proposal:
towards my work being largely without specific targets
Even if you are known to be capable, it is only fair for donners to keep track of the use of their donation as much as possible. With open source dev, it should be easy if we know what you were promising at the beginning.
It is like you want to make an exception for the standard of the css proposal because we would know you, and that's what worries me.
Letting us know how much time you are willing to spend on which topics would be the strict minimum.Even for you, it would be more easy if you knew more precisely what you wanted to do.
and it sounds like you also don't believe in monero.
You are making assumptions, and I don't know how you came up with that. For the title, it is not written "help xmr take over the world" but "help ofrnxmr take over the world", so as I understood you are talking about you, not monero.
This title is unhelpful (any ccs proposal could make the same title) and confusing."help a movie (not actually) featuring monero win an oscar" = ego, bullshit, scam, 25k paid for 0 deliverables (playing with words to pretend like there are deliverables).
Agree with you on this one.
Edited by Cyrix126Letting us know how much time you are willing to spend on which topics would be the strict minimum.
i typically spend all of my waking hrs doing whatever i can. whether it be listening to midipoet attack plowsof over meta (not his job), then volunteering to work with paid contributors to clean up the meta repo (getting myself banned in the process), helping test network attacks, etc. Everything is/was free
Even for you, it would be more easy if you knew more precisely what you wanted to do.
I do whatever i can, wherever i can. nothing ive ever done has been specific. Im not a creator, I am an improver. If i had ever limited myself, id just be a community member. Ive learned more "on the job" than i could ever had hope to bring to the table.
and whatever i can bring to the table, is just scratching the surface of my potential. I try to push past my own limits on a daily basis. I dont stay inside of my comfort zone.
For the title, it is not written "help xmr take over the world" but "help ofrnxmr take over the world", so as I understood you are talking about you, not monero. This title is unhelpful (any ccs proposal could make the same title) and confusing.
the title isnt specific to monero, and uses the movie ccs title as a template. Difference being, ofrnxmr's success translates to much improved contributions to monero from me.
monero isnt taking over the world. Monero is a tool that may be essential to any realistic attempt to change the world.
the proposal is not to make monero an entity, but to use my own as a conduit
Edited by ofrnxmr
From what I have observed ofrn is an idealist, who is putting monero the currency above everything else.
On one hand this shows in his first class support on #monero-support:monero.social, no matter if its a noob question or some niche edge case, with insane response times and never belittling. Ban him and notofrn appears to again help people, unpaid of cause. Some community projects needs testing/help/advice? He'll do that too. Found some privacy leaks in cake wallet? Reported (and afaik patched). A shitty cake fork pings their server when you build it, so that devs leak infos? Also his discovery. Monerujos pocket change decreases privacy by a fixed amount of "pockets"? Also fixed now. None of these things is remarkable on it's own, but you too dear reader have likely benefited from his efforts!
On the other hand he zero tolerance for BS, no matter if it's from upper management or paid contributions, and he does not hesitate to voice his opinion. Unsurprisingly not everyone appreciates that, which gets him into trouble over and over again. From the outside it may appear as if ofrn causes chaos, while in my view he's only the one pointing out the rust beneath the paint.
Personally I appreciate both aspects, but maybe the best part is that he gets shit done. Not the fancy cryptography code, nor some impressive media masterpiece, but all the little dirty yet important tasks that nobody wants to do. (Hint: check out the read receipts on -support to figure out who gives a fuck. It ain't the ones bitching the loudest about ofrn)
Regarding the proposal:
Yes, ofrn should be paid. Especially for the support towards both users and community devs. I'm not sure what the remaining work for "CCS Hack response" is and if the responsible people would accept ofrns help, but sure, support should extend to anyone who needs and wants it. (Same is true for the "extras" task you mention.)
The "ofrn-oversight" is spicy, and the takes will be to hot for some people. It's exactly what got you trouble before. There is no way people in charge will pay you and therefore endorse this. IMHO you should make a dedicated extra matrix room (not hosted on .social) either way.
"Gathering funds" is either a CCS, bounty, whichlist, or magic thing, and I don't see a reason why you should do it on payroll.
To take part in any core related task, an overwhelming majority must accept you in that role. Also you should know how abrasive you can be, so asking for any kind of frontend role is comedic.
Asking amount seems fair, but a year in advance is a stretch. Reasonable payment schedule is quarterly, just like most of our devs have.
After reading comments in the -community room, I understand the request for upfront payment - in particular the desire to reinvest funds into the community to paid currently unpaid contributors to get some small tasks done, without additional bureaucratic delay.
That said, they payout should be 25% upfront, then 25% after each 3 months. Depending on the wallet situation (are payouts on time) maybe with some time buffer planned in.
If this is approved Monero is assuredly a honeypot. Why are we even considering merging this CCS? I don't care what this ofrnxmr user has done for the community. CCS requests need to be reserved for projects only, or ideas that directly benefit XMR. Approving this request will look bad as there are other avenues to request for donations. Do not let this get approved!
Im not speaking for anyone else in my response.
Why are we even considering merging this CCS?
because nothing in life is free. the value proposition is "do we send ofrn to flip burgers, or is his work worth what is costs to flip burgers"
I was never paid for, example, termux node. I never intended to ask for anything. I used to scrape by with donations from doing customer service (monero support). due to some malicious little shitheads (sgp, erc, xmrscott), ive been
- unable to feed myself all year (banned from support channels, where i should probably be admin),
- unable to contribute in any respectable capacity (banned from dev, mrl, gui, despite unban by plowsof and unban request from selsta),
- Unable to help with ccs (banned in community. When luigi asked for unban, scott said "no. Lets not act emotional", and banned all of my accounts 3.1 plowsof is ccs coordinator - unbiased, impartial. but i work to make sure that when, example, geonic tries to block FCMP, he cant. Or when rucknium is spread thin, i suggest to him to open a ccs to be resident statistician (which he did mere days later). 9 upvotes, still not merged. or when dev a is too modest, i make sure they arent taken advantage of
I help wherever im able. And wherever im incapable, i figure it out, or i work with someone who is.
-
"do we send ofrn to flip burgers, or is his work worth what is costs to flip burgers"
This is even more a red flag. This line of arguing is so stupid. If you were really worry about that you'll just force on yourself to listen others and be calm. You think you are right for being that angry, while forgetting that if you weren't, this CCS would have been granted a long time ago. Still, you persist arguing about your bad behavior. There is no way I'm supporting someone that don't want to do any effort on itself.
And I rejoin others opinion on matrix regarding your involvement in the community. You've done a great job, but if it weren't for this so despicable attitude, people would have donated to you. Don't come here like the unknown savior wishing glory. You were doing it for free, no ones agreed in the past to give money for that.
So really playing on that empathy of others is just wrong. Now I'm convinced you are of bad faith
-
Clearly a language barrier, as your comment is way off target.
Sorry for that. Please ignore my comment.
but you rejected my dm where i was attempting to clear up your misconceptions.
If you have something to say about people misconceptions say it in the community channel. You wanted to dm me while we were discussing who was supporting you/who you were helping. I understand that you could have wanted to clear that specific comment of mine during that time, but I don't like discussing drama in dm as it quickly turn into valor judgement.
So, we need something like a centralized DAO in order to protect decentralization. Sounds like fun.
Could the positive votes be a sign, that people agree, that the current community moderators are acting in self interest,
and need to be changed?
The CCS system is supposed to be like a DAO, without the control of core.
-
So to vote, you will have to share your private viewkey, to determine how many votes you have.
I'm pretty sure some rules are in place, regarding ban evasion by alt accounts, and you suggesting that as a solution is telling.
You putting words in my mouth
idiotic proposal getting an overwhelming number of positive votes shows how vulnerable CCS is right now.
the upvotes are from actual contributors and community members who signed with their real handles. are you saying these real people are idiots?
Youre a random sock.
without the casuals and driveby sock puppets, this us far from 50:50.
why are you so mad at the fact im not scamming anyone? As much as you want ofrnxmr to walk away from monero (i wonder why), im fighting to make sure i dont have to.
nobody should have to put up with sock puppet spam.
as bad as this proposal might sound to your ears, youre a sock. your vote is worthless. Post from your real acct
Edited by ofrnxmr
I throw my hat in the ring for paying ofrnxmr. He's been around for a long time in the trenches and more than proven himself.
He can be curt and sometimes rude, but he is direct and truthful. Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable and not polite. Some people tell comfortable lies to appease at the expense of others. He doesn't. We need people like him to keep others in check and honest sometimes.
He is asking for ~$28k...is that even minimum wage? Exit scam, really? He's going to burn his 6+ year rep that he faked this whole time to exit scam for a whopping heist of... ~$4.5k a year?
I think $28K is a bargain price for ofrnxmr and quite honestly the dude has already earned it even if he does end up pulling an "exit scam"
Edited by Final Phoenix-
I, personally would object to a one year pre-payment.
Make it a performance based quarterly thing, and I'd be like Fuck, yeah. The dude does bring some value to the space.
Personally, I value his input, but it's not what guides my decisions. As always, I am the fucking Trasher, like he's the fucking ofrn!
I have qualms about the full release rather than quarterly or half year, but other than that, I think this should be funded. As another person who did these "soft skills" thing for a long time, I know the value that comes with them.
Let Monero have what it deserves in this soft skills area here rather than have none at all.
This is a terrible proposal. Ofrn may be active, but they are objectively a terrible person for a community role.
Ofrn does not work with the members of the Monero community. They have been repeatedly banned from various community channels run by completely different mods, including the community and Monero Konferenco planning channels. They pick abusive fights with actual builders in the Monero community over pointless, pedantic squabbles.
As the title of this CCS implies, there is no negotiating or cooperation occuring here. Funders of this CCS would solely be funding someone's full-time desire to nitpick and complain.
Monero needs builders, not abusive complainers.
I sympathize with the need for a community role, but picking anyone else on the internet at random would yield a better result.
If Ofrn wants to be paid to lurk in a Matrix chat with no real responsibilities, then they should ask for donations.
Perhaps the most ironic thing is that Ofrn considers himself a champion of upholding CCS values and defending the community from scams, yet here he is with a completely pointless proposal with no real goals and deliverables, no method of checking for accountability, and all paid up front. This is an objectively terrible proposal.
Perhaps this proposal is a joke in bad taste to prove a convoluted point? There's no logic to it, at all.
If the Core team wants another person to support them (which would make sense!), then they should start an application process and consider better candidates.
Edited by Justin Ehrenhofer-
@ct I'm not saying no one has been helped, but when someone manage to piss a massive number of important builders in the community for petty reasons, and then they try to open an unaccountable CCS for community building specifically, I can't help but feel that any other candidate would be better.
If the community wants someone to help in a relationship and community-building capacity, good! That's what we need! But Core should ideally open an application process and hire the best candidate, ideally someone who is more patient and diplomatic.
I know that not everyone liked everything that Diego did, but in his time in a similar position, he achieved several concrete deliverables without pissing people off unnecessarily, including:
- Managing the Monero Defcon and Monero CCC conference planning
- Improving the Monero website
- Helping with audits
- Running community meetings
- Coordinating regular discussions between wallet makers, workgroups, and researchers
- Giving presentations about Monero at various conferences
- Publishing the Revuo
This is an important position that should be taken seriously. If Core wants help, then they should ask for the best applicants to apply for the position.
As a newcomer dev, @sgp my personal experience has been 100% positive with ofrn, while you (and many others) never tried to help me, or even respond to any DMs when I was honestly had question when you were admin in Matrix. I am sure many other newcomers have same experience.
I don’t know where you get your info. But my experience has been 100% opposite of you said, and I think ofrn is very positive force for community.
-
@0xFFFC0000 I'm glad you had a good experience working with this person. If I missed a Matrix DM, it was because we had a Resolutions channel and I get a ton of spam DMs unfortunately. Fwiw, I'm no longer a mod because I couldn't moderation actions that I wanted to, so I felt there was no point to keep trying when luigi seemed to be very in favor of a lack of moderation.
I recommend you read Ofrn's series of (very recent!) comments here in this issue. Take your time to see if his writing is really the sort of comments that are justifiable for a community coordinator position that this person is asking for. Even luigi said he took it too far.
A major part of a community role is being able to successfully work with various parties to achieve greater outcomes. Their comments indicate the exact opposite to me: this is someone who would rather pick fights and burn bridges with one of the largest financial donors to the Monero community because of a minor gripe that was already addressed.
Regarding Monero Konferenco, those organizers decided that Ofrn's comments were far too disruptive in the room for them to continue their productive planning. They had to remove him because his comments were getting in the way of planning the event. Instead of helping the room with productive comments, he would fixate on the scammy part of the prior CCS proposals. He kept fixating on his dislike of one community member MSvB, despite that community member not being a member of the new organization board; MSvB was already removed from the decision-making process. Instead of productively helping the community move to correct some imperfections with the past events, he wouldn't allow the organizers to move on and fix the actual issues.
In the Monero Policy workgroup, instead of helping the existing contributors to make new materials, he lashed out at them because they were organizing their thoughts on Google Docs. It would be one thing for him to say "hey, I recommend you use this other thing, let me set this up and help you." Instead, it was absolutely a rude tone that was totally inappropriate.
I'm for criticism; I made the Breaking Monero series, I support the skepticism Sundays initiatives, and I always want people to be critical. However, it needs to be somewhat productive. And time and time again, if Ofrn disagrees with someone, he will not let it go. There is no accepting of a different opinion. There is no accepting of some differences or ambiguity. It's his way or the highway. He will do what he can to destroy you.
In a decentralized, permissionless ecosystem, Monero needs someone who can clearly and politely communicate in variety of scenarios. I see the exact opposite here.
your argument doesn’t make sense to me. You are willing to remove someone (ofrn) who has done unbelievable amount of productive work for his “harsh” tone (which I can argue was/is special circumstances).
But when it come to you not responding any DMs (when you were admin), or not helping newcomers you are willing to put every kind of excuse one can imagine.
That’s an incredible double standard.
Edited by 0xFFFC-
I'm sorry, but this is simply not okay.
Sending objectively silly DMs https://twitter.com/ofrnxmr/status/1775034577196560643
"Again, whata with this faggot bullshit" https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240410#c360899
"And for anyone who has a problem with my tone - suck my dick" https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20240410#c360908
These IRC messages are just the problematic messages I found within the last 24 hours. They are not taken out of context; they are taken mid-rant from one of the common rants that Ofrn has blessed the -community channel with for months. This is not normal. This is not healthy. This is not productive. We are witnessing someone having a breakdown and saying anything necessary to get their way.
Again, I want to reiterate: this person is asking to represent the Core team in interactions with the community. Literally anyone else would be better at learning to communicate more effectively than Ofrn.
I'm not saying that a full-time person to communicate with developers is useless. Clearly, it can be VERY useful. However, Ofrn is not a developer. He does not have a history of doing anything other than comment. Monero must have more than this one person who can be paid to answer questions. How do I know? Because dozens of Monero community members have come together before for this exact purpose: https://monero.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Reputation&filter=all
There goes sgp, feeling himself and smelling his drawers. Making up shit as he goes
the members of the Monero community. They have been repeatedly banned from various community channels run by completely different mods, including the community and Monero Konferenco planning channels.
@plowsofff is the man in charge of community. Has never banned me. I was banned in community by you and scott, because you're A bitch and scotts YOUR bitch. Holding each others dicks while you piss, and making community have to put up with your personal issues.
Ofrn has blessed the -community channel with for months. This is not normal. This is not healthy. This is not productive.
get it right - years.
We are witnessing someone having a breakdown and saying anything necessary to get their way.
also sgp:
I'm no longer a mod because I couldn't moderation actions that I wanted to
ROFLMFAO @ you
saying anything necessary to get their way.
like this?:
However, Ofrn is not a developer. He does not have a history of doing anything other than comment.
stop running your lying cocksucker. I did termux node years ago.
i wrote half of the gift card generation half of @plowsofff's gift card POC.
currently working with particl via basicswap on coin integrations: https://github.com/tecnovert/basicswap/pull/78
i dont identify as a competent dev, but to say that i just lurk and comment is a pathetic lie.
meanwhile, you've used my work with 0 attribution.
To quote the words of a CEO at a major company "Go. Fuck. Yourself."
Ofrn has blessed the -community channel with for months.
years, pussy. don't undersell me. You've been projecting for "months". you're a weak person. shitting all over community with your mass ban tantrums.
There is no accepting of a different opinion. There is no accepting of some differences or ambiguity. It's his way or the highway. He will do what he can to destroy you.
Stop projecting. You have real world mental issues and have been known to fly off the handle and start abusing your powers. Everyone knows you're a delicate lil flower, incapable of regulating your emotions.
you destroyed yourself by abusing your position.
burn bridges with one of the largest financial donors to the Monero community because of a minor gripe that was already addressed.
addressed my ass. Still a WIP
@vik @tuxsudo @tanner @MajesticBank 0 bridges burnt! You're a lying sack of dog shit. also, sorry if, unlike you, i cannot be bought.
@rehrar added incognito mode on day 1. @elitewallet fixed call homes @cake did too, fixing fiat api, adding onions, and allowing cake to be run with 0 external calls. current version changed that.
@Monero itself! Was calling home to moneropulse at tx generation time (pre hard fork). @tobtoht, @selsta and @seth were involved in releasing fix quickly after i coordinated with seth in private.
i don't give 2 fucks how much $ you donate. Fix your privacy leak. This. Is. Monero. Not "cuckforbucks.org". ps. I spoke with tux TODAY!
Opinions are like assholes.. and i prefer facts, pussy
pps: vik demoted you and kicked banhammer to avoid your bullshit.
In the Monero Policy workgroup, instead of helping the existing contributors to make new materials, he lashed out at them because they were organizing their thoughts on Google Docs. It would be one thing for him to say "hey, I recommend you use this other thing, let me set this up and help you." Instead, it was absolutely a rude tone that was totally inappropriate.
@recannman and @123bob123 offered and bob has been hosting the servers for free ever since.
bob still paying til this day.
@midipoet is an incompetent larper. there is no "getting work done" with this do nothing dog-fucker who writes hobby posts to get paid vacations. Who shows uo to vite fir their friends movies (not feat monero), and stood against FCMP and ridicules and undermines plowsof as ccs coordinator.
Regarding Monero Konferenco, those organizers decided that Ofrn's comments were far too disruptive in the room for them to continue their productive planning.
YOU decided this alone other organizers had asked me to join committees and work to get rid of or replace bad
They had to remove him because his comments were getting in the way of planning the event.
YOU removed me temporarily, because you wanted to host 2 votes without my influence.
- Take over PBW using funds that were for forming an entity for Kon
- Hostile takeover if "monero-events" by "monerokon" re creating new "monerokon" rules and applying them to the room
Instead of helping the room with productive comments,
dumbass fiat maxi, you're a revisionist historian. Kon has adopted plenty of my suggestions.
he would fixate on the scammy part of the prior CCS proposals.
Wow, you're dishonest! im so surprised! (not)
He kept fixating on his dislike of one community member MSvB,
Poaching sponsors has 0 to do with liking a person and add yourself to that list
despite that community member not being a member of the new organization board; MSvB was already removed from the decision-making process.
liar. He wasn't removed until you became ajs new puppetmaster (during your failed bid to takeover PBW)
Instead of productively helping the community move to correct some imperfections with the past events, he wouldn't allow the organizers to move on and fix the actual issues.
i literally LEFT events when you hosted your cucked votes. Wasnt banned, idiot. Can rejoin anytime i like
edit: sorry to rain on your parade, but i hit "comment & close" by accident
damn thats brazy, but i kinda dont really give a fuck about your feelings
you know what makes the ccs system look like a joke more than this proposal being accepted? you using fake accounts to hijack it
when you take a leadership position, you have to also accept the bad things that come with a leadership position
dont act like ofrn took to harassment instantly before trying to fix the issue in other ways
go work for a corpo and stop grifting like you care about monero's values. i'm sure you'd make a great bean counter
assume the position and get back down on your knees
