us-west-coast-monero-drop-storage

What

We have a pallet at a warehouse in Las Vegas, which is used for receiving and storing supplies, Monero banners, and a PA system. The facility has been used to support Defcon and World Crypto Con activities. There was a CCS proposal to help cover storage expenses, but there were some unaccounted expenses and the warehouse has announced that they are increasing the monthly lease from $60 to $115 per month starting from January 1, 2020.

This proposal is to cover the $740 shortfall for storage services until August 2020.

Past CCS funding: +$800
Payment for supply shipments: +$15

July-August invoice (including unaccounted expenses for handling Monero merch): -$395
September-December 2019: -$240
January-August 2020: -$920

Total: -$740

Who

I am ajs and have volunteered at Defcon 26 & 27 handling logisitics and A/V production. I will be helping out at 36C3 and Konferenco 2020.

changed the description

I support

As i said in the proposal, buying that material was a bad idea since the beginning. Quoting part of that comment:

buying 2000$ of equipment to use it only once and then sit in a garage for the rest of the year is a waste of money. it would be much easier to rent the needed stuff from a local business in Vegas. Usually, a/v stuff is bought if there is the certainty of a repeated use, otherwise, in my experience, renting is always the best option.

The proposal was merged very quickly and my and other's objection wasn't considered. Now we start seeing the results.
This is just the first of more additional costs that storing unused equipment will cause. Anyone with experience with a/v services know that renting is always the option, unless the equipment is used continuously (every week or at least once a month). Now we find ourself with a lot of stuff that takes dust for one year, is used for a couple of days (if it won't need repairs when it's time to use it. Unused audio tools degradate) and then go back to a pricey storage room to get dust for another year.

Now, as i said, this is just the first of other "unexpected" expenses that storing unused hardware will cause (without even considering the cost of moving this hardware from place to place). I will not approve this proposal, since i think buying that equipment was a mistake since the beginning and the community shouldn't pay for the results of this mistake. I'm not voting against either, because i understand @ajs would have to face the additional costs by themselves and i don't think would be fair.
Still, all this is a waste of community money.

my and other's objection wasn't considered

This is incorrect. Your objection was considered and in fact, the original proposal was changed to reflect your view. However, we did not end up renting equipment, because Defcon prohibited recording video and the unused funds were transferred to the core team's development fund.

renting is always the option, unless the equipment is used continuously

A lot of items in our inventory have already been used twice and, hopefully, a third time. This year's supplies will be used a second time. I did request quotes from local A/V companies to rent a PA system, but it turned out that buying a PA system was cheaper than renting for a few days.

storage room to get dust

Supplies are placed in boxes on a pallet that is shrink-wrapped and stored in a climate-controlled warehouse. Dust is not a problem.

"unexpected" expenses

The unexpected expenses come from the expanded role the facility played. It was only going to be used for A/V equipment, but we end up using the location for general logistics. Books, t-shirts, and other Monero merch was sent there. The facility charged a per package handling fee and this expense was not accounted for in the supplies proposal.

This is incorrect. Your objection was considered and in fact, the original proposal was changed

I'm not incorrect. the proposal was changed, but was also been merged right after without having those changes reviewed. In fact, we ended up buying the equipment anyway. This was discussed in the community channel right after and many shared the same concern. See: !71 (comment 6273)

A lot of items in our inventory have already been used twice and, hopefully, a third time

This is just confirming my point: The items are not used continuously, but only twice, maximum 3 times and they need to be moved from place to place each time.

but it turned out that buying a PA system was cheaper than renting for a few days.

This is a simplicistic way to estimate the costs of buying/renting equipment. An own a/v system need to be maintained, fixed if something breaks (and an expert technician could be needed depending by how extended is the damage), moved from one place to another (by somebody who must be trusted by the community for this role. Who will take care of this stuff if ajs leaves? This is just an additional issue that could have been avoided), stored somewhere and kept monitored. All these things result in costs that should be considered carefully.

All these expenses and potential issues would have been avoided with rented equipment. It surely would have been more expensive at the time, but it would have resulted cheaper in the long run (rented equipment doesn't need the additional costs listed above) and would have created none of the potential issues i mentioned.

Dust is not a problem.

I wasn't simply referring to dust. Instrumentation degradates and need to be maintained. Dust or not dust. See comment above.

Anyway, we cannot change the past. We bought this equipment and now we have to deal with consequences of this choice. As i said, i cannot support this proposal, but i also don't feel like rejecting it. I just hope it will be a good lesson for the next time.

we ended up buying the equipment anyway.

In particular, what equipment are you referring to? We didn't buy or rent video equipment. Most of the stuff we purchased can't be rented or it was cheaper to buy.

An own a/v system need to be maintained, fixed if something breaks

This argument would be stronger if we were talking about expensive pro equipment. We bought a budget portable PA system ($229) and lights ($109). If something breaks, it wouldn't be economical to get it fixed by an expert technician as suggested. If we get 2+ uses, IMO we would get enough value out of them.

Who will take care of this stuff if ajs leaves?

This is a valid point. I might not be attending Defcon 28, but I am confident there are community members willing to step up. I am not the only one with access to the facility. Others have gone there to take and leave stuff.

I have to say that i agree with @ajs.

I understand that renting the equipment was an option @erciccione, but when faced with the choice we did honestly weigh up the costs and figured that the costs of purchase would repay themselves after two uses - the second will be at DefCon 2020. It didn't make sense to burden the community every year when we could have just once.

I agree that storage is not ideal, especially as we are now sort of trapped at the higher cost level. However, i think these costs can be absorbed for 8 months, and then perhaps some thought put into a new storage unit somewhere cheaper.

Increased storage cost is covered by Defcon 27 ccs surplus. Proposal withdrawn.

closed